Dave-G Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 I have been asked to find the legal bits that specify what is allowed for what - as opposed to guidelines or hearsay. Anyone help please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 my old man has .22lr .22hornet .222 .243 6.5x55 all cleared on an open ticket for vermin and fox (deer on the 243 and 6.5) So you can get .22lr with fox on it, you can get 6.5 with vermin on it. Something i know lots will tell you you cannot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid bunny Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Dave-G Do you consider your FAC to be a legal Document? It should state in your "additional conditions" section that you can shoot vermin and other wildlife in connection with shooting on ANY Estate. Also it may state you can shoot animals to protect other animals or humans, so presumably if you want to shoot a fox, that's ok because you are protecting rabbits that you want to shoot And you can humanely shoot animals, I could interpret that as putting a fox out of it's misery after not killing it with the first shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 rabid bunny I'm sorry but you have got it wrong. The conditions you have detailed refer to the use of expanding ammo only and not what your fac authorises you to shoot. Your fac will have a further condition detailing exactly what quarry you are permitted to shoot. This condition normally appears as condition 5. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Basically there are no specifics in law relating to what you can and cannot shoot with any particular calibre BUT each species is covered by non firearms law that usually relates to how that species may be 'taken' ie Deer Acts, Wildlife Acts etc so you need to take a species and then pop into your local library and see what laws there are that relate to that species. Generally the Home Office Guidance is viewed as 'Law' by Constabularies throughout the UK and some more dogmatically than others BUT as you progress in your experience and contact with your Constabularies Firearms Dept you will gain both respect and a less restrictive approach to your requests. All my rifles are conditioned for 'Pest Control and Sporting Purposes' so in effect I can use the 325WSM for anything including shooting rabbits or even rats and since I have no conditions restricting where I may shoot I can choose and ***** the safety of the location. This is not something that just happens so don't be disillusioned into thinking you can apply for a FAC and get 'Carte Blanche' because you will not but with the right approach and just reasons you may well find your permissions to be considerably less restrictive than you expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid bunny Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 rabid bunny I'm sorry but you have got it wrong. The conditions you have detailed refer to the use of expanding ammo only and not what your fac authorises you to shoot. Your fac will have a further condition detailing exactly what quarry you are permitted to shoot. This condition normally appears as condition 5. Charlie Thanks for putting me right on the quote from the FAC in condition 6. However, I still maintain there is nothing in law preventing shooting a fox with a legal rimfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 rabid bunny There isnt as long as your FAC shows within its conditions for the rifle in question permission to shoot any of 'Fox' or 'Pest Control' or 'Small mammals'. Vermin is not sufficient (not even for rabbits - legally) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Dave-G Do you consider your FAC to be a legal Document? It should state in your "additional conditions" section that you can shoot vermin and other wildlife in connection with shooting on ANY Estate. Also it may state you can shoot animals to protect other animals or humans, so presumably if you want to shoot a fox, that's ok because you are protecting rabbits that you want to shoot And you can humanely shoot animals, I could interpret that as putting a fox out of it's misery after not killing it with the first shot. Given that I cannot legally acquire store or shoot my FAC guns without it - yes I once saw a home office guidance thingy about what calibre should be used for what species - can't seem to find that again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid bunny Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 rabid bunny There isnt as long as your FAC shows within its conditions for the rifle in question permission to shoot any of 'Fox' or 'Pest Control' or 'Small mammals'. Vermin is not sufficient (not even for rabbits - legally) As far as I understand it, the FAC is a police permission slip with police restrictions and limitations. There is no LEGAL requirement to use a certain bore against certain animals, other than for shooting Deer. So if you "contravene" a police restriction on the FAC then presumably the police will deal with it by receeding the FAC. I think you would not end up in court over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_HMR Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 The FAC states on it what calibre rifle your allowed to shoot what quarry your allowed to shoot and the conditions on where your allowed shoot you can shoot bunnies with a .243 there is no legal limit but its has to be down on your FAC that your allowed do it. Not really sure what your saying deer have the only restriction ie min cal of .240 inches so technically you can shoot everything else with a .22lr which would include hogs i think theres no limit for them but you try to get hogs on a ticket under .22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 I once saw a home office guidance thingy about what calibre should be used for what species - can't seem to find that again You want this page here "Home office guidance to police 2002" Chapter 13, page 76 "Good reason to possess a firearm" has the table I think you refer to. As I write that I have in mind your original question, I am not sure this table suits your needs though I do think it's the one you are after. This is simply guidance to the police from the home office, I am not sure the specific calibres and quarry are "legally binding" as according to that table as such. As far as I understand it, these guidelines are what the FLO will use to decide what kind of quarry you can have in your conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I once saw a home office guidance thingy about what calibre should be used for what species - can't seem to find that again You want this page here "Home office guidance to police 2002" Chapter 13, page 76 "Good reason to possess a firearm" has the table I think you refer to. As I write that I have in mind your original question, I am not sure this table suits your needs though I do think it's the one you are after. This is simply guidance to the police from the home office, I am not sure the specific calibres and quarry are "legally binding" as according to that table as such. As far as I understand it, these guidelines are what the FLO will use to decide what kind of quarry you can have in your conditions. That's the one I was after Pin - thanks. I wonder how long the hmr will need to be around before the home office clarify it's quarry suitability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Given the last update to the guidance doc was only made in 2002, and that took 10 years from the previous guidance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagleman Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 It does depend so much on what Constabulary you come under. I am in the Met and the Met say no LR or HMR for fox. Period. "Not suitable calibres" That's it! And yet there will be plenty of people on this site and others that do have "short range" fox on the LR or HMR. It is all a bit daft methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 I see my pics dont come up again WHY its only this site that does this so this time what I.T hoops do I jump through this time? cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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