MC Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 The safety aspect is ******* as well, while beating last season on a shoot now being run by one on here I came around one side of an overgrown release pen only to come face to face with a closed side by side at face level. needless to say that guy got a mouthful. A gun whtherO/u, s/s or semi is at the end of the day a shotgun, end of story. As for tradition I am all for it but there has to be an elememt of evolution as well otherwise we would all have single muzzle loaders. I do dress aproppriately on game days but not in tweed, I have modern materials that are lightweight, warm and most importantly dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeboy Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I think its a shame that autos are still seen as unsporting by a lot of people, I think that is absolute rubbish. I bought mine at the CLA game fair last year and since then my silver pigeon 3 has only been out of the safe twice. I find it a much much nicer gun to shoot and I can shoot it far better than any other gun I've shot. Safety is all down to the bloke behind the trigger. If the shooter is safe, and seen to be observing good gun safety practise then what the hell does it matter if someone else cant tell if the gun is loaded or not. Tradition is fine, and to those people who like all that, thats fine too but we are in the 21 century now and we should be able to shoot what ever we see fit. If people want to go shooting dressed up in tweeds etc then that is their choice but they should not be frowning on people for not wanting to dress like edwardian gentry or shooting the type of gun they prefer or shoot better. Dont get me wrong, I dont have a problem with tweeds etc, they can look really smart. The price of decent tweeds is however ridiculously high and game shooting is already beyond the means of the average guy. I think in the main, driven game shooting is still seen by many as a sport of the posh and monied. If tradition is the excuse then all game shooters should still be shooting hammer guns and black powder carts ! I'm afraid its all down to snobbery. I mean what difference does it really make what design of gun you shoot as long as you are safe and killing the birds efficiently ?? NONE ! Does anyone think that the pheasant knows the difference, or cares for that matter. The semi auto is a very popular gun throughout the rest of the world with no stigma attached. I cant see why we shouldn't be able to shoot whatever sort of gun we want regardless of weather it be at clays (where they seem quite acceptable) or game or vermin. When shooting from a hide I would take an auto over anything else any day of the week. Leeboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 on that basis though we could use rifles to shoot pheasants and not worry about them flying. The day I see semi's used for game shooting is probably the day I give it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeboy Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 on that basis though we could use rifles to shoot pheasants and not worry about them flying. The day I see semi's used for game shooting is probably the day I give it up. Why ? a shot gun is a shot gun regardless of the design. Its the shot that kills and the gun is just the means of getting in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Best you give up then because I have seen quite a few people use semi's on game shoots. I fail to see why shooting a pheasant with a semi is different to shooting one with a side by side (if you ignore the extra shot capacity). after all a 12bore is a 12bore regardless of it's configuration. Personally I don't use a semi on game shoots mainly because I can't hit anything with it, no other reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I guess the shoots I've partaken in are far more traditional and though I've seen semi's used on clear up days I don't think they have a place on game. Where do you draw the line 5 shot semi's or say you can only load 2 cartridges? I'd be intrigued who uses one on driven game and what shoots they were brought up on to even entertain the idea. Driven game is about far more than killing pheasants after all its not pest control its designed to be sporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 The safety aspect is ******* as well, while beating last season on a shoot now being run by one on here I came around one side of an overgrown release pen only to come face to face with a closed side by side at face level. needless to say that guy got a mouthful. A gun whtherO/u, s/s or semi is at the end of the day a shotgun, end of story. As for tradition I am all for it but there has to be an elememt of evolution as well otherwise we would all have single muzzle loaders. I do dress aproppriately on game days but not in tweed, I have modern materials that are lightweight, warm and most importantly dry. Martincavie Safe gun handling and stupidity are two different things and do not come into the discussion. As far as the story you quote above is concerned either the gun or the beater were where they should not have been because to have a beater come face to face with a gun is inexcusable. Had that happened on my shoot then the one in the wrong would have been sent home pretty damn quick, never to come again. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeboy Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I guess the shoots I've partaken in are far more traditional and though I've seen semi's used on clear up days I don't think they have a place on game. Where do you draw the line 5 shot semi's or say you can only load 2 cartridges? I'd be intrigued who uses one on driven game and what shoots they were brought up on to even entertain the idea. Driven game is about far more than killing pheasants after all its not pest control its designed to be sporting. So what is not sporting about a semi auto ? Very few people own fac autos. And just because the gun may carry more than 2 shots it doesn't mean that a shooter will fire more than 2 at each bird. So what if he does ! To say that driven game shooting is not about killing birds is just utter nonsense ! if that were the case why would people pay so much money to do it. If it wasn't about killing birds all the tweed wearing posh gun toting shooters would just turn up at the clay range. Driven game shooting is just that, shooting game and hopefully killing it. If its the people and the companionship and all that then there are plenty of other hobbies where you can have all that. You dont need to be killing stuff. Should be concentrating on the birds anyway not what everyone else is doing. And having more than 2 shots dont necessarily mean more birds in the bag. For me if i've missed with the first 2 then firing a third dont usually put the bird in the bag. The only advantage is that with the semi auto is that when you've done your 2 shots you miss out on the birds that come by when you are reloading (unless you have 2 guns and a loader, which in effect is no more sporting than having a gun with more than 2 shots) And regardless of what your reason to be in the shooting line is, it shouldn't matter a toss what gun you are shooting. Leeboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08shooter Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 well al4x explain to me what is different about 2 shots in a sbs as 2 shots in an auto?god forbid if you had an accident today and with a shoulder problem could not stand the recoil of a sbs or ou would you give up your shooting as opposed to using an automatic? come on a gun is a gun its the shooter that is responsible for safety. :blink: . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 its not about safety its about etiquette, and it simply isn't done. Autos have been arround for years and you won't see any on proper game shoots, and whats the point in just having 2 shots with one they take far longer to load once empty than a sbs or O/U. Anyway I can't be ***** to argue I know the shoots I beat on would send you home immediately with an auto but then 2 of them are exceptionally old shoots but even the small syndicate I shoot and beat on wouldn't have it. The difference here I think is some people have more experience of the sense of tradition and occasion with a formal game shooting day and some don't. And your point about injury is why a lot of the older guns on these shoots use 28 bores and on occasions 410's and I've seen some shoot very well with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Semi,s were banned on our shoot from last season.1 person used to use 1(shoot captain)very safe shot. Then we had more people turning up with them,less experienced guns and the landowners voiced their concerns. Also our shoot is walk 1 stand 1 where there are guns in the beating line for any birds that go back...needless to say cartridges were hard to find as you are swinging onto birds whilst in cover ie brambles,ferns etc.In winter when the cover dies right back,these shells were more apparent to see..did not look good and was mentioned. I have a SA which i shoot better than my OU but i don,t think they have a place on a game shoot. GH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08shooter Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 well i would put etiquette down as a snobby thing then,you have to move on with the times,autos are a part of modern shooting and as for experience on a traditional shoot i would nt thank you for it its very country gent a bracket that i would nt fit into im more a commoner myself. i have been offered a place on 2 pheasant syndicates and declined both i get plenty of sport wanting to have to pay for it.i get vermin shooting all year round,have a duck flight pond and pheasants over my fathers ground. i also get to shoot snipe and wodcock too all without the formal stuff and tweeds and i reckon i enjoy it better. i will however respect your opinions, just wished others would respect the semi shooters opinions more too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I can't be bothered to check but I didn't think you could take game with a 3 shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08shooter Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I can't be bothered to check but I didn't think you could take game with a 3 shot? i have an ou as well :blink: im not anti ou or sbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I can't be bothered to check but I didn't think you could take game with a 3 shot? I think its only an issue if it can hold more than 2 cartridges, however it seems its an offence if the gun is capable of holding more than 2 and you even go out with the intention of shooting birds "Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 Shooters should acquaint themselves with The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (WCA) and comply accordingly. Particular note should be made of the restriction imposed by Section 5, which makes it an offence to use an automatic or semi-automatic weapon which has a magazine capacity of more than two rounds, to kill any wild bird. The definition also encompasses Section 1 (Firearms Act 1968 as amended) pump-action and semiautomatic shotguns, and any rifles whether bolt-action, pump-action or semiautomatic, with such magazines, including air weapons. However, a person will not be guilty of this offence if they have obtained a specific licence for themselves from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) - 0845 601 4523 (general enquiries). Any person committing this offence may also commit an offence of failing to comply with the conditions of his/her firearm certificate if he/she is only authorised for vermin control." and BASC "prohibited Methods of Taking/Killing Wildlife (Including Game) Please note additional legislation applies to deer, further information is available from the BASC Deer Department on 01244 573047 It is illegal to use certain methods for killing or taking wildlife. Unless stated the following offences, which are subject to prosecution, apply to both birds and animals: - The use of any automatic or semi-automatic weapon against any bird except the Bird Pest Species and some mammals. "Automatic weapon" and "semi-automatic weapon" includes any weapon the magazine of which is capable of holding more than two rounds." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08shooter Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I can't be bothered to check but I didn't think you could take game with a 3 shot? I think its only an issue if it can hold more than 2 cartridges, however it seems its an offence if the gun is capable of holding more than 2 and you even go out with the intention of shooting birds "Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 Shooters should acquaint themselves with The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (WCA) and comply accordingly. Particular note should be made of the restriction imposed by Section 5, which makes it an offence to use an automatic or semi-automatic weapon which has a magazine capacity of more than two rounds, to kill any wild bird. The definition also encompasses Section 1 (Firearms Act 1968 as amended) pump-action and semiautomatic shotguns, and any rifles whether bolt-action, pump-action or semiautomatic, with such magazines, including air weapons. However, a person will not be guilty of this offence if they have obtained a specific licence for themselves from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) - 0845 601 4523 (general enquiries). Any person committing this offence may also commit an offence of failing to comply with the conditions of his/her firearm certificate if he/she is only authorised for vermin control." and BASC "prohibited Methods of Taking/Killing Wildlife (Including Game) Please note additional legislation applies to deer, further information is available from the BASC Deer Department on 01244 573047 It is illegal to use certain methods for killing or taking wildlife. Unless stated the following offences, which are subject to prosecution, apply to both birds and animals: - The use of any automatic or semi-automatic weapon against any bird except the Bird Pest Species and some mammals. "Automatic weapon" and "semi-automatic weapon" includes any weapon the magazine of which is capable of holding more than two rounds." i repeat i have an ou as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 its not a dig its just fact and I might add I've got an auto and I've shot game with it, but only on clear up days, theres a big difference between using one on a small syndicate / walk up to using one on a proper driven day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 You need to re read that legislation, It states a gun with a fitted magazine capable of holding 2 cartridges. A section 2 semi or pump is exactly that, 1 up the spout and 2 in the magazine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 thats why I added this bit which was intended to mean more than 2 in the magazine :blink: I think its only an issue if it can hold more than 2 cartridges, however it seems its an offence if the gun is capable of holding more than 2 and you even go out with the intention of shooting birds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 thats why I added this bit which was intended to mean more than 2 in the magazine :blink: I think its only an issue if it can hold more than 2 cartridges, however it seems its an offence if the gun is capable of holding more than 2 and you even go out with the intention of shooting birds No. the issue is that the magazine holds 2, the one in the chamber is ignored. That is the reason we have 3 shot pumps and semis. I watched a demonstration by a wildfowling bloke the other day at a game show, I forget his name, but he spent an hour putting decoys out and explaining it all. He also spent 10 minutes explaining his gun, which was by the way, a semi-auto! He said something to the effect of "I spend hours and hours in the cold and in the mud and water, I dont need a fancy stock, I need a modern gun which does the job its designed to do. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I'd class wildfowling as very different to Pheasant or partridge shooting. In that environment a semi is fine and with the loads used probably even a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerman Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 i think all the talk of the snobbery of driven days is unfair and misguided. although i would not deny there is certainly an aspect of it amongst a few of the older more expensive shoots, on the whole the company of any days i go on is largely made up of farmers - and not the minted kind either (and there aren't many of them around these days!). dressing in tweed, shooting a sbs or o/u is as tied in with game shoots as the shooting itself. it is what makes the day special, i shoot primarily over decoys, and if i could buy another gun i would make it an auto, but the fact that there are traditions and etiquette which preside over driven days sets them apart as a different occassion and that is what i enjoy even when i might possibly get better sport over drilled beans in my hide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P03 Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I'm not anti semi....but what I don't like is the way SOME semi users just swing the gun around, after firing the last shot on a stand, without physically checking that the gun is empty. I know all you semi users will say "but if you've only loaded two cartridges.....Blah" there is no excuse for not checking and I for one don't like looking down the barrel of a gun that could, just possibly (however unlikely), be loaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusk2dawn Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 i think all the talk of the snobbery of driven days is unfair and misguided. although i would not deny there is certainly an aspect of it amongst a few of the older more expensive shoots, on the whole the company of any days i go on is largely made up of farmers - and not the minted kind either (and there aren't many of them around these days!). dressing in tweed, shooting a sbs or o/u is as tied in with game shoots as the shooting itself. it is what makes the day special, i shoot primarily over decoys, and if i could buy another gun i would make it an auto, but the fact that there are traditions and etiquette which preside over driven days sets them apart as a different occassion and that is what i enjoy even when i might possibly get better sport over drilled beans in my hide! Woodpigeon shooting has my vote over driven pheasants anyday, if you can consistently do well at pigeon you can shoot anything, imo theres nothing to beat a good days decoying. :blink: D2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusk2dawn Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I can't be bothered to check but I didn't think you could take game with a 3 shot? My cert says specifically for the destruction of vermin ie no duck etc. :blink: D2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.