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guzzicat

WH Pollard, Hesketh?

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    This is one of mine, a sidelock Ejector by Pollard,the escutcheon bears this coat of arms, & the motto Quod Tibi Hoc Alten, seems to be the Hesketh family crest, I would love to have some history, wish they could talk.action flats marked "patented ejectors" they are in a small box fixed ,neath the barrels, serial number8241,

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    Few more pictures of the action and ejectors will enable some more info about it . Is it just my eyes or is it blacked damacus ?I would also take a serious punt that it has been restocked .

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    31 minutes ago, guzzicat said:

    they are in a small box fixed ,neath the barrels,

    Your description that the ejector mechanism is housed within a small box suggests `Baker ejectors`; albeit these were normally fitted within the fore-end rather than as you have suggested fixed beneath the barrels. As Gunman has pointed out, a picture paints a thousand words.

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    38 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

    Your description that the ejector mechanism is housed within a small box suggests `Baker ejectors`; albeit these were normally fitted within the fore-end rather than as you have suggested fixed beneath the barrels. As Gunman has pointed out, a picture paints a thousand words.

    Rib is engraved " new barrels by Parker Hale" Do not know where discoloration came from in pics.

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    Edited by guzzicat

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    3 hours ago, guzzicat said:

    "patented ejectors" they are in a small box fixed ,neath the barrels,

    Interesting, and I would suggest quite scarce. They are not Baker ejectors, but what I believe to be  the patented avant-tout ejector mechanism.  Greener in his book `The Gun & Its Developement` describes this system as "Harrison`s ejector". I presume Mr Harrison went on to join Cogswell who then became the well known firm of the two names. The Avant-Tout name was also used on a model of their guns. The system uses coil springs to power the kickers, and the one point I fail to understand is the lack of securing screws for securing the box to the barrels. The `Avant-Tout` system normally uses 2 screws to secure the box to the lower rib, allowing removal in the event one of the springs collapsed or fractured. Your photo seems to suggest the box is brazed or soldered onto the barrels. I am sure `Gunman` will be along shortly, be interested in his comments on this somewhat unusual system.

    Edited by JJsDad

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    1 hour ago, JJsDad said:

    Interesting, and I would suggest quite scarce. They are not Baker ejectors, but what I believe to be  the patented avant-tout ejector mechanism.  Greener in his book `The Gun & Its Developement` describes this system as "Harrison`s ejector". I presume Mr Harrison went on to join Cogswell who then became the well known firm of the two names. The Avant-Tout name was also used on a model of their guns. The system uses coil springs to power the kickers, and the one point I fail to understand is the lack of securing screws for securing the box to the barrels. The `Avant-Tout` system normally uses 2 screws to secure the box to the lower rib, allowing removal in the event one of the springs collapsed or fractured. Your photo seems to suggest the box is brazed or soldered onto the barrels. I am sure `Gunman` will be along shortly, be interested in his comments on this somewhat unusual system.

     

    Hi As it happens I have a C & H 20 bore SBS, but non ejector.

    Edited by guzzicat

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    t

     

     

    From  1st August 1883 Mr Perrins has decided to offer a genuine reduction of 20% for cash on all best guns costing over £10. The offer is due to him being overstocked with best guns, both “ the ordinary kind and hammerless.”

    Perrins & Son moved yet again - to 59 Broad Street, Worcester - and were still listed among local businesses in 1892, which meant that by then John Perrins had been operating successfully in the city for almost 60 years. 

    Perrins & Son was taken over by Herbert E Pollard in 1892 moving to 62 Broad Street in 1900 - was this a move or expansion of premises?

    It's not known exactly when the firm went out of business though it may have been before the dawn of the 20th Century.

     

    t

    Tthere must have been more than one 

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    I want to see more of this ejector mechanism, does anyone have any patent drawings or anything?  It is quite difficult to see how the ejectors are tripped and actuated?

    The cam on the knuckle obviously lifts the cartridges, the dogs cock the back action locks... Ive seen all sorts of ejectors but never such a sealed unit as this?

    Does the gun eject both cartridges every time? in which case this would make a lot more sense as i have read of early systems which achieved this? or is it a true selective ejector system?

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    Is there a patent number ? It has similarities to a couple of systems , but there were so many and most disappeared very quickly .Some had provisional patents granted but never persude to full patent . It was also a regular selling point to mark something as "patent " when the was non .

    Could you get a photo of the forend knuckle and the front of the action please .

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    Ejector.jpg.20b718ebcb6f290639dd48df072ca46f.jpg

                       ejectors of guzzicat`s gun

    41951x9.jpg.5f51a75a2d541209b17e840960f4cf17.jpg

             Avant -Tout ejectors on a Cogswell & Harrison

    The barrels of guzzicats gun are replacements, so it is possible that Parker Hale who reportedly re-barreled the gun brazed the ejector box in position for some reason rather than the use of retaining screws used on the Cogswell. The Avant Tout system was selective, i.e it only ejected the spent case.

    Edited by JJsDad

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    13 hours ago, demonwolf444 said:

    I want to see more of this ejector mechanism, does anyone have any patent drawings or anything?  It is quite difficult to see how the ejectors are tripped and actuated?

    The cam on the knuckle obviously lifts the cartridges, the dogs cock the back action locks... Ive seen all sorts of ejectors but never such a sealed unit as this?

    Does the gun eject both cartridges every time? in which case this would make a lot more sense as i have read of early systems which achieved this? or is it a true selective ejector system?

    Pics , I use this regularly, shoots fine & always ejects only fired cases,

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    Is there a patent number ? It has similarities to a couple of systems , but there were so many and most disappeared very quickly .Some had provisional patents granted but never persude to full patent . It was also a regular selling point to mark something as "patent " when the was non .

    Could you get a photo of the forend knuckle and the front of the action please .

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    I have seen this type of ejector work before . It is not E Harrison's Patent , as used by Cogswell and Harrison , although the spring box does bare some similarity .

    When the gun is fired the lifters or cocking dogs move or lift the cams in the forend to engage with the extractor holding it back . As the gun is opened the cam on the action knuckle pushes the cam down which releases the spring and trips the ejector . 

    If the gun is not fired the springs will push the extractors out like that in the Cogswell so there are similarities .

    It is probably closer to the ejector system used in many O/U's in operation and has the same basic idea as that used by Boss but in a much simpler form. Bakers patent was a stronger and more reliable system which again can draw comparisons with the basic principle shown here 

    There many many patents for ejectors taken out in the 1880's/1890's many of which would not get patents granted to day as they were modified versions of others designs . Some were over complex whilst others were either inefficient or unreliable   . As gun design became more "standardized " with expiry of Anson & Deeleys's  and Southgate's patents  most makers adapted to the 3 main systems we see today .

    1  Southgate / Holland

    2 Deeley Box

    3 Baker 

    Other makers such as Boss /Purdey / Cogswell kept their own style . Greener adopted the Baker system as it was most adaptable to their action .

     

     

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