tiers system

[grrclark]

5 hours ago, mel b3 said:

I couldn't read all of it without buying something with 50% off , but I read enough to leave me feeling very uncomfortable.  I've never been much of a conspiracy theorists,  and I've always held the belief , that although governments can be pretty cack at times ,  they still had our best interests at heart .  To my mind , something like this is a real game changer,  and I'm starting to think that the tin foil hat brigade might just be worth listening to .

It is the problem of not having an effective opposition.  Practical and necessary give way to ideology and ultimately abuse of power.

Unfortunately, the SNP have a track record of trying to have the state have too much influence, there was the flawed named person scheme which was a state appointed guardian for every child, even those in family units would have still had a state named guardian appointed to ensure the safeguarding and well being of children.  Which of course at face value who could argue with the safeguarding of kids welfare.  However seen in the context of things such as the Hate Speech Bill would the state guardian have some arbitrary measure of what 'appropriate welfare' was and start to step in, i.e. your parents don't agree with our view of what is right or wrong so we will decide.

There is a schism in the SNP just now around gender recognition laws and self identification.  The party consensus is that anybody can identify as whatever gender they please, just by saying so.  To give an example I could identify as a woman, but in every single outward respect look and behave like a man, and if was denied access to women only spaces such as shared changing rooms, female welfare groups such as group counselling for sexual abuse, etc then those denying me access would be in breach of the law.

If a journalist chooses to write a polemic to try and highlight the absurdity they will be guilty of hate speech.  If a comedian, film maker or playwright chooses to satirise the situation they will be guilty of hate speech.

If that gender recognition bill becomes statute and the hate speech bill as presented just now does too, then me writing what I just have could be considered hate speech and actionable under the law.  If in the family group in the private home the mum or sister says out loud that they don't agree with that, but the woke teenager who is fed this narrative of 'fairness' through the school curriculum decides not to agree then they phone the rozzers, report mum and sister for hate speech in the house and the blue disco light car comes around and they are criminalised.

The really sad thing is that the majority of people look past this, it is boring to have to consider and in principle all this talk of being fair to everyone and stopping people being hateful is a good thing.  How often do we see #BeKind on social media posts, of course being kind is good, but it is now used as a weapon to try and silence disagreement.  Don't argue with someone about something they are passionate about, it is hurtful #BeKind.

There is an active campaign for people to tell tales on their neighbours for breaking covid rules, all dressed up under the banner of it 'being for the greater good and saving lives', but it is just another accession to stronger state control.  If we can tell tales on people having their own family in their own house then why wont a neighbour tell tales on someone overhearing a conversation in the garden saying "i think it is wrong that a middle aged, bearded individual with physically intimidating presence and full male genitalia was in the same communal changing room as my teenage daughter because they said they identify as a female".

All of that sounds like mad loony tunes conspiracy nonsense, but we in Scotland are genuinely right on the cusp of that becoming reality.

SNP members have been expelled from the party for daring to speak out, especially in the gender recognition discussion.

I have taken this thread wildly off topic now, but ultimately so many of the behaviours that we are seeing around covid, the polarisation of opinion and taking extreme positions is what leads to this.  The really sad thing is that we are inviting it upon ourselves, the more voice we give to "there should be a law against..." or "this isn't right, the government should..." the more that we cede our liberty to positions of idealist extreme.

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, grrclark said:

All of that sounds like mad loony tunes conspiracy nonsense, but we in Scotland are genuinely right on the cusp of that becoming reality.

SNP members have been expelled from the party for daring to speak out, especially in the gender recognition discussion.

I have taken this thread wildly off topic now, but ultimately so many of the behaviours that we are seeing around covid, the polarisation of opinion and taking extreme positions is what leads to this.  The really sad thing is that we are inviting it upon ourselves, the more voice we give to "there should be a law against..." or "this isn't right, the government should..." the more that we cede our liberty to positions of idealist extreme.

It might be off topic but its certainly worrying,  let's hope the second vote never happens if this is what the SNP have planned for Scotland. 

I'm quite surprised it hasn't been flagged up in the mainstream media or by Boris to shut up the likes of Blackford.

[discobob]

10 minutes ago, Mice! said:

It might be off topic but its certainly worrying,  let's hope the second vote never happens if this is what the SNP have planned for Scotland. 

I'm quite surprised it hasn't been flagged up in the mainstream media or by Boris to shut up the likes of Blackford.

I saw on a YT video that on the day of the lockdown the broadcasting watchdog issued "guidance" that all channels had to toe the government line. So if the Government says you can't broadcast that then that is what happens.

I have heard they are planning to build a block of apartments where speakers corner is located because it won't be needed in the future.

[mel b3]

5 hours ago, grrclark said:

It is the problem of not having an effective opposition.  Practical and necessary give way to ideology and ultimately abuse of power.

Unfortunately, the SNP have a track record of trying to have the state have too much influence, there was the flawed named person scheme which was a state appointed guardian for every child, even those in family units would have still had a state named guardian appointed to ensure the safeguarding and well being of children.  Which of course at face value who could argue with the safeguarding of kids welfare.  However seen in the context of things such as the Hate Speech Bill would the state guardian have some arbitrary measure of what 'appropriate welfare' was and start to step in, i.e. your parents don't agree with our view of what is right or wrong so we will decide.

There is a schism in the SNP just now around gender recognition laws and self identification.  The party consensus is that anybody can identify as whatever gender they please, just by saying so.  To give an example I could identify as a woman, but in every single outward respect look and behave like a man, and if was denied access to women only spaces such as shared changing rooms, female welfare groups such as group counselling for sexual abuse, etc then those denying me access would be in breach of the law.

If a journalist chooses to write a polemic to try and highlight the absurdity they will be guilty of hate speech.  If a comedian, film maker or playwright chooses to satirise the situation they will be guilty of hate speech.

If that gender recognition bill becomes statute and the hate speech bill as presented just now does too, then me writing what I just have could be considered hate speech and actionable under the law.  If in the family group in the private home the mum or sister says out loud that they don't agree with that, but the woke teenager who is fed this narrative of 'fairness' through the school curriculum decides not to agree then they phone the rozzers, report mum and sister for hate speech in the house and the blue disco light car comes around and they are criminalised.

The really sad thing is that the majority of people look past this, it is boring to have to consider and in principle all this talk of being fair to everyone and stopping people being hateful is a good thing.  How often do we see #BeKind on social media posts, of course being kind is good, but it is now used as a weapon to try and silence disagreement.  Don't argue with someone about something they are passionate about, it is hurtful #BeKind.

There is an active campaign for people to tell tales on their neighbours for breaking covid rules, all dressed up under the banner of it 'being for the greater good and saving lives', but it is just another accession to stronger state control.  If we can tell tales on people having their own family in their own house then why wont a neighbour tell tales on someone overhearing a conversation in the garden saying "i think it is wrong that a middle aged, bearded individual with physically intimidating presence and full male genitalia was in the same communal changing room as my teenage daughter because they said they identify as a female".

All of that sounds like mad loony tunes conspiracy nonsense, but we in Scotland are genuinely right on the cusp of that becoming reality.

SNP members have been expelled from the party for daring to speak out, especially in the gender recognition discussion.

I have taken this thread wildly off topic now, but ultimately so many of the behaviours that we are seeing around covid, the polarisation of opinion and taking extreme positions is what leads to this.  The really sad thing is that we are inviting it upon ourselves, the more voice we give to "there should be a law against..." or "this isn't right, the government should..." the more that we cede our liberty to positions of idealist extreme.

ive taken a few hours to read , and re read , then try to absorb what youve written . ill be very honest graham , if anyone else had written it , id be sitting here thinking that they were a complete xxxxxxx loon , but knowing a little of you , i can be pretty damned sure that youre not far off the mark.

this is pretty frightening Orwellian stuff . seeing the ways that youve pieced it together , makes  perfect sense , and if it doesnt happen now , you can be pretty sure that its on the way , and will be here in the very near future.   the million dollar question is , what on earth can any of us do about it ?. 

[grrclark]

59 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

ive taken a few hours to read , and re read , then try to absorb what youve written . ill be very honest graham , if anyone else had written it , id be sitting here thinking that they were a complete xxxxxxx loon , but knowing a little of you , i can be pretty damned sure that youre not far off the mark.

this is pretty frightening Orwellian stuff . seeing the ways that youve pieced it together , makes  perfect sense , and if it doesnt happen now , you can be pretty sure that its on the way , and will be here in the very near future.   the million dollar question is , what on earth can any of us do about it ?. 

I am genuinely concerned by it Mel, it is Orwellian.  Collectively I think that we need to speak out and accept that there might be a lot of flak coming our way.

Both the gender recognition bill and the hate crime bill in Scotland are part of the legislative agenda before the end of this parliamentary term, depending on how things look as the debates progress then the more vocal and active i will become about it, but ultimately unless our representatives in parliament speak out then we're in trouble.

[Mice!]

Watching the Last leg live, they've just said England tier 4 Wednesday is being talked about!!

[mel b3]

15 hours ago, grrclark said:

I am genuinely concerned by it Mel, it is Orwellian.  Collectively I think that we need to speak out and accept that there might be a lot of flak coming our way.

Both the gender recognition bill and the hate crime bill in Scotland are part of the legislative agenda before the end of this parliamentary term, depending on how things look as the debates progress then the more vocal and active i will become about it, but ultimately unless our representatives in parliament speak out then we're in trouble.

morning graham,

after giving things as much thought as my tiny brain will allow , i can see only one outcome , normal people are screwed !. 

normal people are no longer allowed to be normal , normal people already cant speak out without being branded , racist , sexist , homophobe , or some other derogatory name that i probably wouldnt even know or understand . if you speak out , youre a monster , and if the oddballs get their way (and they will) , you will be a monster and a criminal . the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

the only comfort i can take , is that my children have been brought up with a sound set of morals , and have enough common sense to be able to fit in with the woke lunatics , and hopefully , that will see them safely into their future.

as for me , im very much a dinosaur in this freakish new world.

[grrclark]

2 hours ago, mel b3 said:

morning graham,

after giving things as much thought as my tiny brain will allow , i can see only one outcome , normal people are screwed !. 

normal people are no longer allowed to be normal , normal people already cant speak out without being branded , racist , sexist , homophobe , or some other derogatory name that i probably wouldnt even know or understand . if you speak out , youre a monster , and if the oddballs get their way (and they will) , you will be a monster and a criminal . the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

the only comfort i can take , is that my children have been brought up with a sound set of morals , and have enough common sense to be able to fit in with the woke lunatics , and hopefully , that will see them safely into their future.

as for me , im very much a dinosaur in this freakish new world.

I think that we are in a phase of a cycle Mel, there is talk of increasing libertarianism in pursuit of personal freedoms, but the evidence appears to be somewhat contrary.

I do have many fears about where we might end up in this phase though and even although i'm only in my 40s I also feel like a dinosaur at times.