Fox from 5 metres

[mchughcb]

 

[sportsbob]

Disgusting shooting its no wonder people get upset with shooters like this.

[mchughcb]

Really? Guess you don't hunt over hounds too much.

[sportsbob]

5 hours ago, mchughcb said:

Really? Guess you don't hunt over hounds too much.

Yes really two very poorly placed shots injuring the Fox`s front legs before it attempts to escape with its legs collapsing as it runs, a clean head shot with a rifle would have been much better. 

[Houseplant]

Pest control in Australasia is just that. Clean kills are a nicety, not the main goal. Lots of dead goats and sometimes deer can be seen littering the forest floor with their guts blown out once the "professional" cullers have been through. Worse still are the tens of thousands of animals that die slowly as a result of aerial drops of sodium fluoroacetate, but no one cares about that because they can't see it. I'm a hunter, not a pest controller, so want no part of it, but life (and death) can be tough in this part of the world.

[sportsbob]

Hi HP I am pleased to hear you do things properly in NZ as pest control is taken seriously in the UK and a clean kill it the goal, mindless slaughtering as portrayed in the video is  not tolerated. 

[Houseplant]

4 hours ago, sportsbob said:

Hi HP I am pleased to hear you do things properly in NZ as pest control is taken seriously in the UK and a clean kill it the goal, mindless slaughtering as portrayed in the video is  not tolerated. 

Thank you. My point was that not only is mindless slaughter tolerated in this part of the world, it is paid for by government and supported by nearly everyone including conservation groups. It's only hunters who advocate for these animals and I may be a single voice in advocating for goats as most hunters are only concerned with deer!

[WalkedUp]

Personally I would not class this video as mindless slaughter, the fox looked to take a pattern that caused mortal damage from well within the effective range of the shotgun. It was dead without knowing it after the first shot, adrenaline carried it the rest. He used quick follow up action to ensure no suffering. If you shoot a rabbit in the chest with pellets it will often run and flip in a similar fashion at the point of a hydraulic failure due to catastrophic blood loss. You could argue a CNS death is cleaner, but that only stands when you actually hit the CNS!

[mchughcb]

19 hours ago, sportsbob said:

Yes really two very poorly placed shots injuring the Fox`s front legs before it attempts to escape with its legs collapsing as it runs, a clean head shot with a rifle would have been much better. 

If I was a sitting in a car at night with a thermal vision scope and a 223 thinking with the fox having no idea and then shooting it in the head maybe. 

However I am hunting foxes during the daylight on foot with a shotgun when they can appear anywhere under cover of long grass or trees and the time to aim and shoot is measured in milliseconds. There are many safety considerations in this type of hunting and the range and lethality of a rifle and the accuracy and rapid fire shooting is not appropriate.

6 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

Personally I would not class this video as mindless slaughter, the fox looked to take a pattern that caused mortal damage from well within the effective range of the shotgun. It was dead without knowing it after the first shot, adrenaline carried it the rest. He used quick follow up action to ensure no suffering. If you shoot a rabbit in the chest with pellets it will often run and flip in a similar fashion at the point of a hydraulic failure due to catastrophic blood loss. You could argue a CNS death is cleaner, but that only stands when you actually hit the CNS!

You are correct. There are many foxes that run 30m and pull up dead. I used the third shot to drop it on the spot with the full choke but that fox wasn't make it more than another 15m before succumbing to its mortal wounds. It is pretty obvious to me the previous poster has zero idea how animals react when shot with shotgun. Either they get hit in the CNS and collapse due to shock, or they succumb to blood loss.

[mchughcb]

18 hours ago, Houseplant said:

Pest control in Australasia is just that. Clean kills are a nicety, not the main goal. Lots of dead goats and sometimes deer can be seen littering the forest floor with their guts blown out once the "professional" cullers have been through. Worse still are the tens of thousands of animals that die slowly as a result of aerial drops of sodium fluoroacetate, but no one cares about that because they can't see it. I'm a hunter, not a pest controller, so want no part of it, but life (and death) can be tough in this part of the world.

Done much daylight fox hunting over hounds with shotguns have you?

I also get a government bounty so making sure the fox is retrieved after the hunt is important. I don't get paid for missing foxes.

[Houseplant]

3 hours ago, mchughcb said:

Done much daylight fox hunting over hounds with shotguns have you?

I also get a government bounty so making sure the fox is retrieved after the hunt is important. I don't get paid for missing foxes.

Never and I wouldn't want to, but I don't criticise your actions.

[sportsbob]

11 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

Personally I would not class this video as mindless slaughter, the fox looked to take a pattern that caused mortal damage from well within the effective range of the shotgun. It was dead without knowing it after the first shot, 

I cant agree with your perspective of things as the video clearly shows the first shot is low and to the side of the Fox, the second is across its lower front quarter which seems to have injured its legs because as it attempts to escape the left leg seems to be collapsing , it was only the third shot which finally killed the Fox. I firmly believe this sort of video on a UK shooting forum is problematic in the least.

4 hours ago, mchughcb said:

I also get a government bounty so making sure the fox is retrieved after the hunt is important. I don't get paid for missing foxes.

Well there lies the problem the AU government paying for dead foxes.

[eddoakley]

From what I can see there are 3 shots in about as many seconds.

The fox was probably dead after the first and the 3rd probably wasn't needed but was taken to ensure the fox wasn't lost. 

Compare it to a deer shot perfectly heart and lung and running 100 yards, is that a problem? Does that mean all deer should be head shot to avoid runners?

I don't see any problem with the video.

Edd

[mchughcb]

1 hour ago, sportsbob said:

I cant agree with your perspective of things as the video clearly shows the first shot is low and to the side of the Fox, the second is across its lower front quarter which seems to have injured its legs because as it attempts to escape the left leg seems to be collapsing , it was only the third shot which finally killed the Fox. I firmly believe this sort of video on a UK shooting forum is problematic in the least.

Well there lies the problem the AU government paying for dead foxes.

Serious question. How many foxes have you shot with a shotgun ever?

[mchughcb]

55 minutes ago, eddoakley said:

From what I can see there are 3 shots in about as many seconds.

The fox was probably dead after the first and the 3rd probably wasn't needed but was taken to ensure the fox wasn't lost. 

Compare it to a deer shot perfectly heart and lung and running 100 yards, is that a problem? Does that mean all deer should be head shot to avoid runners?

I don't see any problem with the video.

Edd

Yes, that is correct. Cylinder bores first two barrels, full choke on the last.

I have shot hundreds of deer larger than red deer including moose, anybody who thinks that animals always lie down and die obviously hasn't done much hunting.

I never advocate head shots. You can blow the jaw off a deer and it will die a very slow and painful death. The heart/lung region has a higher probability of kill and should be matched with the appropriate calibre and projectile.

 

[sportsbob]

1 hour ago, mchughcb said:

Yes, that is correct. Cylinder bores first two barrels, full choke on the last.

I have shot hundreds of deer larger than red deer including moose, anybody who thinks that animals always lie down and die obviously hasn't done much hunting.

I never advocate head shots. You can blow the jaw off a deer and it will die a very slow and painful death. The heart/lung region has a higher probability of kill and should be matched with the appropriate calibre and projectile.

 

What people think happens and what does happen I agree are two different things however publicly sharing the poor accuracy of your first two shots on a UK forum is in my book out of order so I`m going to back out here because there are obvious cultural differences.

[WalkedUp]

4 hours ago, sportsbob said:

I cant agree with your perspective of things

That’s no issue, everyone is entitled to voice their opinion and yours is a valid question. One that is good to discuss in the open 👍