JSB .25 Knockout Slugs

[wymberley]

Because I'm somewhat gob-smacked, does a 5 inch 10 mph cross wind affect at 100 yards sound right for this ammo which weighs in at 33.48gr when having c778 ft/sec at the muzzle for some c45 ftlbs?

MTIA

[Ultrastu]

Chair gun says yes

5 inches of lateral shift in the wind with a 10 mph at 90 degree  

Have you seen this on paper ? 

 

By comparison my jsb king pellets would shift around 12 inches at the same power   880 fps at the same range and conditions. 

Slugs really do have a much higher bc than pellets as long as they stay stable throughout the whole flight to the target .if they shed too much speed they can wobble and then the bc plummets along with every other aspect of accuracy and trajectory  .

[Ultrastu]

This is one of the reasons why they can be so fickle in your gun  struggling to hold decent groups at long range .

Pellets by comparison are relatively self correcting and generally fly truer .

MOST THE TIME .

[wymberley]

I've been toying with an idea so ran some figures through the Infinity Suite. I have yet to decide what to do, but my next question might just be, should I buy either of a FX .22 Royale 400 or .25 Royale 500 once I've made up my mind to do anything and then which of the two suits my needs.

[Ultrastu]

Depends on what your gonna use it for and also what u intend to fire from it .

Slugs require a lot of air  so maybe a .22 might be better . Less energy but more speed .

If its pellets the .25 definitely  has the better long range potential  over .22 

But elevated shots are a no go  in .25 and for both with slugs .imo.

[wymberley]

Many thanks. So, the question might be should I decide on which one would suit, is either a good buy?

[Mice!]

According to @villaman his Fac Crown in .22 is the best air rifle he owns.

57 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Many thanks. So, the question might be should I decide on which one would suit, is either a good buy?

Probably depends on which calibre you want, and what it's for.

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

According to @villaman his Fac Crown in .22 is the best air rifle he owns.

Probably depends on which calibre you want, and what it's for.

Could we please perm any one from three:

So, if you can find a FX air rifle of the calibre that you might like and will probably do what you want it to at a price which is favourable to you, it might be worth buying.

Very expensive and not worth the money.

Unreliable and not at all accurate.

[villaman]

4 hours ago, wymberley said:

Could we please perm any one from three:

So, if you can find a FX air rifle of the calibre that you might like and will probably do what you want it to at a price which is favourable to you, it might be worth buying.

Very expensive and not worth the money.

Unreliable and not at all accurate.

Not reliable and not accurate 😂

110 & 115 yards 

[wymberley]

Thank you very much. I suppose that'll have to do -  - I'm in for a new aortic valve on 9/11 so don't want to get too excited. 

Just so as I can put them on the 'to try' list, what ammo did you use? If I jump I'm pretty sure it'll be for the Royale 400. Going to need a few days to recover so just in time to see what's what as there's some arriving at the Exeter Sportsman in November. I need to see if I can handle the trigger pull because of my arthritic hands.

[villaman]

Those two groups with 33gr ZAN slugs , but 33.45 JSB will do exactly the same group 

[wymberley]

Been forced into a change of plan at least in the short term. Give or take, it appears that Zan .177 10gr and JSB 10.03gr slugs would extend like for like-ish my preferred JSB Exact Heavy pellet range by some 20 yards if not a tad more in my R-10. Consequently, I've ordered a 50 off of each sample quantity to try in terms of both velocity and grouping. Trouble is, I've been reading which can be misleading and am informed that slugs can (this does not mean WILL) 'wobble' in the barrel and which may be caused by incorrect alignment when a magazine is involved and such that single shot by hand may well be better. Until they arrive, I can't answer for the JSB but the ZAN are just 0.21" in length. If anything will wobble it's very likely to be these. 15 minutes converting a straight pair of needle-nosed tweezers into approx' a 90 degree version may well prevent this aspect. 

Does anyone have any experience of using these new-ish items as yet?

Cheers.

[Ultrastu]

Some shorter slugs won't hold in the mags very well and then don't probe into the barrel cleanly potentially damaging the slug. 

They also tend to drop out the mag and can fall backwards into the breech block jamming the hammer spring .

Most mags are designed for pellets and don't work well with slugs. 

Some of the longer heavier slugs can be OK though .

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

appears that Zan .177 10gr and JSB 10.03gr slugs would extend like for like-ish my preferred JSB Exact Heavy pellet range by some 20 yards if not a tad more in my R-10. Consequently

How do you mean ? 

In terms of trajectory ,energy 

Or accuracy  ? Or all three 

[wymberley]

38 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Some shorter slugs won't hold in the mags very well and then don't probe into the barrel cleanly potentially damaging the slug. 

They also tend to drop out the mag and can fall backwards into the breech block jamming the hammer spring .

Most mags are designed for pellets and don't work well with slugs. 

Some of the longer heavier slugs can be OK though .

How do you mean ? 

In terms of trajectory ,energy 

Or accuracy  ? Or all three 

I'm not getting any younger and what in the main does for me in particular is drop and windage. Obviously, can't answer for accuracy though just yet.

[Ultrastu]

If you took 3 pellets say .

Jsb 8.44 .jsb 10.34  and jsb 10 grn slug 

Presuming they were all accurate  enough at 50 yds shot out of your sub 12 r10 

the 8.4s giving 11.3 fpe  the 10.3 giving 11.6 fpe and the slug giving 11 fpe (this is what your mostly likely to find ) 

The 8.44  would have the flattest trajectory  but drift the most in the wind 

The 10.3 and slug would have very similar trajectories   but the slug would drift a bit less in the wind .

I suspect you will find the accuracy of the slugs  at 30 plus yards  not acceptable  (I could be wrong every gun is different ) meaning that if you priority is to have the flattest trajectory  choose the 8.4s or if you shoot high into trees or open fields choose the 10.3 s  

As for the slugs they don't expand inside quarry even at 900 fps plus . So won't give any extra kill ability  in a sub 12 .

Give em a try but expect to go back to pellets . 

 

[Mice!]

5 hours ago, wymberley said:

appears that Zan .177 10gr and JSB 10.03gr slugs would extend like for like-ish my preferred JSB Exact Heavy pellet range by some 20 yards

I can't imagine you'll get more range from a slug than a pellet in sub12, everything I read about slugs bangs on about 25 yards, fac is obviously very different. 

As for loading I'd say get a single shot loader, the metal ones are very good, but the plastic ones might do you?

[wymberley]

53 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

If you took 3 pellets say .

Jsb 8.44 .jsb 10.34  and jsb 10 grn slug 

Presuming they were all accurate  enough at 50 yds shot out of your sub 12 r10 

the 8.4s giving 11.3 fpe  the 10.3 giving 11.6 fpe and the slug giving 11 fpe (this is what your mostly likely to find ) 

The 8.44  would have the flattest trajectory  but drift the most in the wind 

The 10.3 and slug would have very similar trajectories   but the slug would drift a bit less in the wind .

I suspect you will find the accuracy of the slugs  at 30 plus yards  not acceptable  (I could be wrong every gun is different ) meaning that if you priority is to have the flattest trajectory  choose the 8.4s or if you shoot high into trees or open fields choose the 10.3 s  

As for the slugs they don't expand inside quarry even at 900 fps plus . So won't give any extra kill ability  in a sub 12 .

Give em a try but expect to go back to pellets . 

 

If we can ignore the JSB 8.44 simply because it's not as accurate as the 10.34 which we'll keep at 11.8 ftlbs simply because that's what it is, then in terms of velocity, energy, path and windage we would ish have

JSB  559, 7.2, 0.0 (zero) and 5.02

Zan  616, 8.4, 0.0 (zero) and 2.61.

Taking the Zan to 70 yards then:

Zan  585, 7.6, -5.3 and 5.2.

Unless they hit bone, shotgun pellets don't expand yet they still kill. If we ignore both the threshold energy requirement and any boundary layer (which we can't in the real world) and use the shotgun formula which will not be totally accurate but still a good guide, penetration into 20% gelatin would be 6.9" for the slug and 6.7 for the pellet at the 50 yards and 6.5" for the slug at 70 yards in theory.

I'll see what's what ASAP after I've got the samples.

 

[Mice!]

3 minutes ago, wymberley said:

JSB  559, 7.2, 0.0 (zero) and 5.02

If you mean JSB HEAVIES then they'll be doing 710-715

And if you can get slugs to shoot and group at 70 yards in sub12 then your the man 👍

[wymberley]

7 hours ago, wymberley said:

, I can't answer for the JSB but the ZAN are just 0.21" in length. If anything will wobble it's very likely to be these. 15 minutes converting a straight pair of needle-nosed tweezers into approx' a 90 degree version may well prevent this aspect. 

Hopefully this will have sorted the problem - it works fine with the R-10 and pellets - but not knowing what a single shot loader is, I'll have a shufti. Many thanks.

[wymberley]

3 minutes ago, Mice! said:

If you mean JSB HEAVIES then they'll be doing 710-715

And if you can get slugs to shoot and group at 70 yards in sub12 then your the man 👍

Yep, 717 in mine, but at the muzzle. We're talking 50 yards. 

I'm doubtful as well, but I was looking at circa 30 ftlbs FAC when I ordered them. Not a total waste, Oppo shoots 177 FAC

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

I can't imagine you'll get more range from a slug than a pellet in sub12, everything I read about slugs bangs on about 25 yards, fac is obviously very different. 

As for loading I'd say get a single shot loader, the metal ones are very good, but the plastic ones might do you?

Again, many thanks - the BSA one looks quite tasty - mind you, so it should for the dosh. I'll see how my op' goes next week and all being well have another look at things in the new year.

[Ultrastu]

The good thing about the jsb heavy is it runs the line between a slug and a pellet . It is drag stabilised like a biablo pellet but has a heavy waist not unlike a slug  and hence has a very high bc for a  177 pellet  while still acting like a pellet accuracy  wise  .

Try the slugs  - I have gone through about 6 different  types from 10 - 13 grns  and some have been very promising  out to 70 yds  but they have been expensive  , not easily available  and require a lot of air and speed to get them to perform 900 fps plus  .

I've said it before -  .if I was going fac .177 air again .I'd go with a rifled barrel as long as poss ,in a bullpup  , with a big airsupply and shoot 13 grn slugs as fast as I could  so around 1000 fps  + 

I dont think i would choose an fx  

I'd probably go uragan  .or a bsa with big bottle and long barrel  

 

 

[wymberley]

33 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

The good thing about the jsb heavy is it runs the line between a slug and a pellet . It is drag stabilised like a biablo pellet but has a heavy waist not unlike a slug  and hence has a very high bc for a  177 pellet  while still acting like a pellet accuracy  wise  .

Try the slugs  - I have gone through about 6 different  types from 10 - 13 grs  and some have been very promising  out to 70 yds  but they have been expensive  , not easily available  and require a lot of air and speed to get them to perform 900 fps plus  .

I've said it before -  .if I was going fac .177 air again .I'd go with a rifled barrel as long as poss ,in a bullpup  , with a big airsupply and shoot 13 grn slugs as fast as I could  so around 1000 fps  + 

I dont think i would choose an fx  

I'd probably go uragan  .or a bsa with big bottle and long barrel