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About Ultrastu

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  • Birthday 04/03/1973

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    Shooting airgun hunting and competing
    Pigeon decoying

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  1. What's the idea behind the extra 100 fps at muzzle .from the cci s ? Is it just the extra 20 fpe at muzzle or only the extra 8 fpe at 150 yds The 100 fps advantage reduces to a 70 fps advantage at 150 yds I guess if they are accurate and good value then why not .they at least would make up for the 15 inch barrel velocity drop .
  2. Shot range

    Thank you, thank you , thankyou Hadn't thought about the antimony content. I also agree .I doubt that most .410 carts actually make the stated velocities on the box but would still be 1000 fps plus in most guns .
  3. Shot range

    Just as a last point for those interested The blue, red and pink shots are with the same average bc and only alter the muzzle speed and the maximum distance see how little the distance is altered by a massive drop in velocity . The green is the same muzzle velocity as the blue ie 1300 fps .But the bc is lower .look how much the max range is shortened too .175 yds . This is what has lead me to believe that its not the speed thats relevant but the shape of the lead shot .lowering the bc . I will leave you with the above to digest . Ps ignore the 4 grains its not relevent (its the lowest value that cg.will allow )
  4. Shot range

  5. Shot range

    Thanks Welsh warrior /rewulf. Good posts and very constructive . Yep the safety aspect of fall out is always the first consideration to any land I shoot .. this new perm is tricky with paths and roads all over the place .And there isn't a clear 300 yds in any direction .But it has to be shot to keep the pigeons at bay .And instead of giving up . A .410 seems the solution . Yes a tail wind can increase the range significantly . But equally a head wind can shorten the range big time too . So it's working with what we have got .to get the job done . I was surprised as much as my mate to find the .410 shot dropping around 175 yds on the day and more experiments with wind directions and cartridges will follow . I've held off posting this on the forum for a few weeks as i wanted to find more info .But I thought it maybe common knowledge that a .410 doesn't go as far as a 20 /12 ? Or that some one might be able to offer a theory as to why /confirm my own . I'm gonna finish this thread here .And do some more experimenting in better conditions over more carts and guns .see if I can form a reliable trend and then .formulate any theories . I appreciate the input from the above constructive posters . Thank you Stu
  6. Shot range

    It's so you know the maximum range your gun will fire (do you know yours ?) So you can work out safe arcs of fire on a new permission.You know its illegal to drop shot on someone's house or head on a road ? Or even beyond your boundary into another field u dont have permission on . So since, of the 2 different .410 s my mate and I shoot and the 3 different 20 bores we shoot .all basically have the same range with a variety of carts its safe to say the 410 s travel around 200 yds and the 20 s travel around 250 . We can shoot a few certain fields with the .410 s and not the 20 s cos there are roads 250 yds from the hide position . I haven't chronoed the guns .as I sold my chrono last year. It's also pretty difficult to get a reliable reading (having tried in the past .) And any ballistic program basically shows that a small (150 fps ) difference between muzzle velocities make virtually no difference to maximum fall out range .So I won't bother to chrono the guns and different carts .And rely on printed info as being close enough . The weight of the shot my be a touch different from one brand to another (all being say English no6 ) But I seriously doubt this would make any difference at all . So this leaves wads .And the average bc of the pellets after they have been shot due to any deformation taken place in the gun . I appreciate the input and dont whish to appear rude .. But I dont know for sure and thought I would ask pw. But we are talking shot guns and cartridges and not rifles and bullets there isn't a lot of overlap in and internal external and terminal ballistics of the 2 . Thanks .Stu
  7. Shot range

    The advice you've been giving maybe relevant for rifles and single projectiles but has zero relation to a shot gun so I ignored it as irrelevant. Sorry . Correct there are differences between the 2 carts in weight and size of bore and the pressures behind the driven shot .possibly the wad and the choke too. It's these differences id like to understand as to why they make a massive difference to the max range of the shot.
  8. Shot range

    Well I was hoping someone might be able to add an extra layer of understanding or a better theory as to why a .410 doesn't travel as far as a 20b all else being equal . Instead of trying to devalue the findings jd and myself have found. I was hoping neutron would chip in ?
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  10. Shot range

    This i also believe too . But the carts i have in 20 b and.410 dont have any shot cups at all .the experiment was done all with fibre wads .i do have some plas wads .410s but they are not a cup, just a flat wad. So no holding of the shot to extend range . So that theory can be discounted
  11. Shot range

    I think we must mean different things by the shot , stringing out ? I mean that the best(undamaged) pellets from the middle of the shot Column travel furthest with most energy and highest velocity say beyond 5 yds from muzzle. And that the out side /rear pellets from the column (most damaged /deformed ) travel slowest /least distance and furthest from poa . Leading to a "string " of shot that hits the ground or target at different times .or distances . Er is that what u meant ? Would that make any difference ?
  12. Anyone using a .25 spring powered rifle

    You will probably find the pellet didn't pass though it failed to penetrate deep enough on a body . A .25 should fix this by penetrating deeper to the vitals . (Ask any old boy which pellet drops birds best .177 .22 or .25 ? They will say the heavy pellets cos they penetrate the feathers better .
  13. Shot range

    The idea of slip streaming pellets for extending range, I dont subscribe to much . once the shot Column has reached say 6 yds the pellets have seperated enough for the air to act on them all equally. Yes the shot will have reduced in velocity a fair amount in those 6 yds. But why would this effect be significantly different to say a 12 /20 b.?? I dont see it would be .
  14. Shot range

    Ok .much appreciate the above ideas (except the why geese fly in a v formation = I dont care ) I suppose geese do but I dont . My theory on why the range of a .410 no6 is much shorter than a 20 b or 12b no6 is not due to the velocity at the muzzle. (As its been shown you need a massive reduction in velocity to get a 50 yd average drop in range .) Also begs the question why manufacturers make high speed carts in the first place ? But thats already been done recently . My theory is that the difference comes about due to a reduction in average bc of the pellets in a .410 compared to a 20b /12b My thoughts are .That due to the narrower bore of the. 410( and lower pellet count ) there is a greater percentage of those pellets in contact with the barrel as they scrape along it .compared to a 20 /12 .this reduces the bc of these damaged pellets slowing them in flight very quickly and also making them spread out quicker too (something I've also noticed how wide a .410 pattern can be at say 20 yds ) As an addition maybe the greater pressures in a .410 cart can damage the pellets more at the rear of the shot Column leaving only a few /small percentage of pellets in there origional round /higher bc shape . This ave reduction in bc would explain the reduced ranges we have noticed and the longer stringing effect over distance .
  15. Anyone using a .25 spring powered rifle

    One issue with the slow moving. 25 cal is .quarry jumping out of the way of the incoming pellet. I've had it with rabbits and. 22 cal at 40 yds