Fiocchi Highland Game 32g 5

[PeterHenry]

Does anyone have any experience with the above cartridges? 

I'm intrested in -

What the recoil is like?

What are the pressures / proof?  - I noticed they seem to be 67mm, so I cant imagine they would be too fierce?

Best,

Peter 

[enfieldspares]

In theory and in practice you cannot push 1 1/8 ounce of shot from a cartridge marketed as "suitable for 2 1/2" chambered guns" at over the specified CIP pressure. So unless Fiocchi have a miracle powder the velocity (and so the recoil) will be much the same as any other maker's cartridge of similar specification.

The only variable that might affect how the recoil is perceived by you is the powder burning speed and if that is such that the muzzle blast is increased greater than with another powder used by another maker. Plus as I'll refer to later your gun weight and stock fit.

Beyond that it may depend on the wad and if the wad is fibre, true felt of a well designed plastic wad designed to absorb, as it were, some of the shock and shove when the powder ignites and starts to produce its gas. 

The short answer is in you last sentence. I don't imagine they'd be too fierce (for sure Lyalvale 2 1/2" Supreme Game 1 1/8 ounce #5 aren't fierce in my 6lbs 9oz AYA No4 with 28" barrels) so if your gun fits properly and is of similar weight I think you'll be OK.

Edited October 21 by enfieldspares

[PeterHenry]

20 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

In theory and in practice you cannot push 1 1/8 ounce of shot from a cartridge marketed as "suitable for 2 1/2" chambered guns" at over the specified CIP pressure. So unless Fiocchi have a miracle powder the velocity (and so the recoil) will be much the same as any other maker's cartridge of similar specification.

The only variable that might affect how the recoil is perceived by you is the powder burning speed and if that is such that the muzzle blast is increased greater than with another powder used by another maker. Plus as I'll refer to later your gun weight and stock fit.

Beyond that it may depend on the wad and if the wad is fibre, true felt of a well designed plastic wad designed to absorb, as it were, some of the shock and shove when the powder ignites and starts to produce its gas. 

The short answer is in you last sentence. I don't imagine they'd be too fierce (for sure Lyalvale 2 1/2" Supreme Game 1 1/8 ounce #5 aren't fierce in my 6lbs 9oz AYA No4 with 28" barrels) so if your gun fits properly and is of similar weight I think you'll be OK.

Much appreciated - that all makes a lot of sense.

[chip000]

When you say at 67mm they can’t be too fierce, pressure increases the shorter the case gets if everything else stays the same. 
if I have load data for a 70mm case and loaded it in a 67mm case the pressure would raise potentially to an unsafe level. 
 

My point is really that you can’t tell pressure by case length. 

[enfieldspares]

2 hours ago, chip000 said:

My point is really that you can’t tell pressure by case length. 

In handloads that's correct. In factory ammunition sold in the UK the cartridges must conform to CIP Rules. This means that a factory loaded 2 1/2" (65mm) 12 bore cartridge sold in the UK and bearing the CIP mark on the box must not exceed a pressure of 740 BAR. This is also the case for the 2 2/1" (67mm and 67.5mm) 12 bore cartridge ditto. So maximum pressure of factory loaded cartridge sold in the UK is a known value by case length for that calibre.

[PeterHenry]

So, if anyone's intrested - the Highland Game 32g '5's are stout but not unmanageable through my AYA no2

I had settled happily on 30g '5's for pheseants through my side by sides - I know there are lots of different thoughts on what's appropriate, but confidence is a big thing, and I am confident with 30g '5's - as much at the beginning of the season, as at the end. But alas, none were available at short notice.

I would use 'Highland Game' again - they work out noticeably cheaper than Lyalvales equivalent offering - Lyalvale being the default cartridge around here. The recoil was noticeable, but I have no brusies or headache to show for it. If I did my bit, they seemed to do do theirs.

Edited October 24 by PeterHenry

[rbrowning2]

On 22/10/2024 at 19:18, chip000 said:

When you say at 67mm they can’t be too fierce, pressure increases the shorter the case gets if everything else stays the same. 
if I have load data for a 70mm case and loaded it in a 67mm case the pressure would raise potentially to an unsafe level. 
 

My point is really that you can’t tell pressure by case length. 

Not sure that is the case,  biggest risk is using a 70mm cartridge in a gun chambered for 2.1/2 inch.

I have experienced as a home loader no such potentially unsafe rise in pressure by using 70mm data in a 67mm case in a 2.3/4 inch chambered gun. I have experienced a much poorer pattern by using the 67mm load in a 3.5inch 76mm chamber gun.

What load data are you referring to?

 

 

[arjimlad]

Good to know. I have some Hi-Flyer 32g 5s which I will keep for January birds through my Beretta SBS. 

[enfieldspares]

17 hours ago, PeterHenry said:

 

I had settled happily on 30g '5's for pheseants through my side by sides - I know there are lots of different thoughts on what's appropriate, but confidence is a big thing, and I am confident with 30g '5's - as much at the beginning of the season, as at the end. But alas, none were available at short notice.

 

If you are Leicester way...use postcode LE9 2AL I may have maybe fifty, sixty, no longer in their boxes, or so Lyalvale Special Game 65mm green translucent plastic cased fibre wadded 30gram English #5 that I am happy to dispose of at £8 per 25 and pro rata. To PETER HENRY or anyone else. I found that in English #5 I prefer the "full fat" 32gram loads in my open bored guns...the old money 1 1/8 ounce. Yes the pellet count difference is minimal but it's all in the mind sometimes that 1 1/16oz #5 isn't as good a killer as 1 1/8oz #5. Shotgun Certificate to be shown on purchase.

Edited October 25 by enfieldspares

[PeterHenry]

8 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

If you are Leicester way...use postcode LE9 2AL I may have maybe fifty, sixty, no longer in their boxes, or so Lyalvale Special Game 65mm green translucent plastic cased fibre wadded 30gram English #5 that I am happy to dispose of at £8 per 25 and pro rata. To PETER HENRY or anyone else. I found that in English #5 I prefer the "full fat" 32gram loads in my open bored guns...the old money 1 1/8 ounce. Yes the pellet count difference is minimal but it's all in the mind sometimes that 1 1/16oz #5 isn't as good a killer as 1 1/8oz #5. Shotgun Certificate to be shown on purchase.

That's very generous of you Enfieldspares - sadly I don't work around there anymore. But appreciative all the same.

[chip000]

On 25/10/2024 at 09:25, rbrowning2 said:

Not sure that is the case,  biggest risk is using a 70mm cartridge in a gun chambered for 2.1/2 inch.

I have experienced as a home loader no such potentially unsafe rise in pressure by using 70mm data in a 67mm case in a 2.3/4 inch chambered gun. I have experienced a much poorer pattern by using the 67mm load in a 3.5inch 76mm chamber gun.

What load data are you referring to?

 

 

Any like for like load data. If I took any proofed 70mm case load and put it in a 67mm case I would expect the pressure to be higher. If it was already at the top end of safe pressure it could then be over pressure in a shorter case. 
I’m talking about general principles that affect pressure, not specific commercial loads. 
my comment related to the fact that the OP suggested that a short case equals a lower pressure load. 

[rbrowning2]

All 12gauge cartridges of 55, 60, 65, 67 and 70mm have a CIP Pmax of 740bar it’s up to the manufacturer how close they go to Pmax for the given velocity they seek. Momentum is then a function of velocity and mass not Pmax and that translates in to perceive felt recoil depending on the weight of the gun and the individuals tolerance to the recoil.

So yes it is incorrect to say just because a cartridge is 67mm it will have less recoil than the equivalent in a 70mm unless the cartridge manufacturer has designed the said 67mm cartridge for a 65mm, 2.1/2inch chamber light game gun by keeping the velocity at the good old observed velocity of 1050 ft/second.

Hence why we have such a choice of cartridges, horses for courses so to speak.

 

Edited October 26 by rbrowning2