Rivelled

[islandgun]

Seen the above word in descriptions in Holts auction, looked it up but can only find as an alternative word for wrinkled. what does rivelled mean anyone ?

[PeterHenry]

14 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Seen the above word in descriptions in Holts auction, looked it up but can only find as an alternative word for wrinkled. what does rivelled mean anyone ?

In the context of a gun barrel, ripples in metal unless I'm mistaken.

Either as a result of a manufacturing fault, or apparently some of the hotter steel cartridges.

[enfieldspares]

1 minute ago, PeterHenry said:

Either as a result of a manufacturing fault, or apparently some of the hotter steel cartridges.

It also did and could happen with old fashioned lead cartridges. 

[PeterHenry]

5 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

It also did and could happen with old fashioned lead cartridges. 

Sorry - yes, that would make sense. I've only ever come across it in the context of HP steel. Not so much to do with steel, as to do with high pressure.

[islandgun]

17 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

In the context of a gun barrel, ripples in metal unless I'm mistaken.

Either as a result of a manufacturing fault, or apparently some of the hotter steel cartridges.

 

14 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

It also did and could happen with old fashioned lead cartridges. 

Right thanks for that, is it serously detrimental or superficial 

[enfieldspares]

28 minutes ago, islandgun said:

 

Right thanks for that, is it serously detrimental or superficial 

Enough to fail proof, yes. I remember seeing a 20 bore Boss that had had to have the barrels replaced. That was maybe now thirty-five years ago when Brendan Kelly was still alive and working out of Price Street. I was offered it for £5,000 with the replacement 2 3/4" chambered barrels as well as the original 2 1/2" rivelled barrels. It was the only Boss 20 bore I've seen. I passed on the bargain which, back then, it actually would have been.

Edited November 14 by enfieldspares

[islandgun]

This description say rivelled on outside of barrel, might imply manufacturing fault

[JohnfromUK]

This is my understanding, but I'm not an expert and the gunmakers here may have a better description.

The description of 'rippled' is as well as it can be described I think.  When gun barrels are made, they are 'struck up' which is the process of getting a really good smooth flat finish.  On a 'best gun', this is had done - I believe by longitudinal strokes(?).  It is a skilled process and I would imagine to do well, it takes time, skill and experience - which means considerable cost.  A really well done example has a flat and mirror finish, shown off by best blacking (or browning with Damascus and twist barrels)

I'm guessing that cheaper guns are done with less care (quicker) and either wholly or partly on a machine.  When looked at along the tubes some have a slightly 'wavy' surface on the outside.  This will have been there since the gun was originally made.  I have seen this on cheaper guns.  Importantly the wave effect is only external.

Moving to the inside, the barrels are bored and (on best guns anyway) adjusted for choke etc.  They look smooth, but the chamber ends and choke can be seen when looked through in the right light.  All guns internally should be smooth and 'flat' other than chambers and choke - NOT wavy inside.

However - problems can be caused by excess pressure with causes a series of concentric ring like waves (at least in the only example I have seen).  The steel has been pushed beyond its limits and stretched and very slightly bulged.  As said above this should be a proof failure because it indicates a defect to the barrel.

 

[islandgun]

Thanks gents, it's described as external and as a Spanish gun guessing manufacturer. Cheers

[Fil]

15 hours ago, islandgun said:

This description say rivelled on outside of barrel, might imply manufacturing fault

For Holts to describe the barrels as rivelled then it probably would not be a manufacturing fault otherwise half the guns I see could have that description. The rivells could be from a small ring bulge at the choke to many dings and knocks. A few dent repairs perhaps. Sometimes even barrels are rivelled because they are so thin and tired. If the inside of the barrel is clear but the outside shape is all over the place from shoody striking you would not describe the barrels as rivelled. The inside is the important bit. So for Holts to describe a barrel as "rivelled" it would be the inside. It obviously should show up on the outside but poor striking of the externals is not normally described as rivelled. Hope that makes sense. 

14 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

This is my understanding, but I'm not an expert and the gunmakers here may have a better description.

The description of 'rippled' is as well as it can be described I think.  When gun barrels are made, they are 'struck up' which is the process of getting a really good smooth flat finish.  On a 'best gun', this is had done - I believe by longitudinal strokes(?).  It is a skilled process and I would imagine to do well, it takes time, skill and experience - which means considerable cost.  A really well done example has a flat and mirror finish, shown off by best blacking (or browning with Damascus and twist barrels)

I'm guessing that cheaper guns are done with less care (quicker) and either wholly or partly on a machine.  When looked at along the tubes some have a slightly 'wavy' surface on the outside.  This will have been there since the gun was originally made.  I have seen this on cheaper guns.  Importantly the wave effect is only external.

Moving to the inside, the barrels are bored and (on best guns anyway) adjusted for choke etc.  They look smooth, but the chamber ends and choke can be seen when looked through in the right light.  All guns internally should be smooth and 'flat' other than chambers and choke - NOT wavy inside.

However - problems can be caused by excess pressure with causes a series of concentric ring like waves (at least in the only example I have seen).  The steel has been pushed beyond its limits and stretched and very slightly bulged.  As said above this should be a proof failure because it indicates a defect to the barrel.

 

Perfect summary mate. And yes. Always up and down and never across. I still have no finger print on the ends of my fingers from all the barrel striking and papering. 

15 hours ago, islandgun said:

This description say rivelled on outside of barrel, might imply manufacturing fault

Sorry I commented before I read the whole thread. If it is on the outside only then someone has bored the nasties away internally and left the outside alone. Check wall thickness. 

[islandgun]

5 hours ago, Fil said:

For Holts to describe the barrels as rivelled then it probably would not be a manufacturing fault otherwise half the guns I see could have that description. The rivells could be from a small ring bulge at the choke to many dings and knocks. A few dent repairs perhaps. Sometimes even barrels are rivelled because they are so thin and tired. If the inside of the barrel is clear but the outside shape is all over the place from shoody striking you would not describe the barrels as rivelled. The inside is the important bit. So for Holts to describe a barrel as "rivelled" it would be the inside. It obviously should show up on the outside but poor striking of the externals is not normally described as rivelled. Hope that makes sense. 

Perfect summary mate. And yes. Always up and down and never across. I still have no finger print on the ends of my fingers from all the barrel striking and papering. 

Sorry I commented before I read the whole thread. If it is on the outside only then someone has bored the nasties away internally and left the outside alone. Check wall thickness. 

Holts exact words are "Rivelled externally" shame whatever

Edited November 15 by islandgun