RSPB - Really Sincere and Perfectly Balanced

[Wildshot]

http://blogs.rspb.org.uk/investigations/ar...riers-Down.aspx

 

What a balanced comment on the Sandringham incident. One part really stands out:

 

"Over the next few hours, a painstaking search of the entire area took place, but sadly no harrier bodies were found. We did locate a number of fresh, recently-used lead shotgun cartridges at three points around the lake.

 

Being experienced investigators in these type of cases, Guy Shorrock and I had no doubt whatsoever that the warden had witnessed the illegal killing of the two harriers but that like so many cases before, these crimes are almost impossible to bring to court, particularly when the bodies of the victims are missing."

 

Obviously the evidence of used shotgun shells confirms that two hen harriers were shot - or could it have been down to the fact there was a duck shoot going on around the lake on the evening. This blog must have been written by a PR whizz, it talks of gunning down birds and then a finishing off shot; as well of how traumatised everyone was and how sick the blogger was and how upset he still is.

 

I am shocked that so much is made from so little evidence. I must be so naive - I thought the government worked on our behalf as well.

[Browning GTS]

Im sorry but we have to look after our sport it may or may not be true, but you know no smoke without fire. But if we are innocent then no problem. BUT if any one ever shoots a raptor then they not only should loose their ticket, they should also face a fine and maybe jail as well

[Chard]

Im sorry but we have to look after our sport it may or may not be true, but you know no smoke without fire. But if we are innocent then no problem. BUT if any one ever shoots a raptor then they not only should loose their ticket, they should also face a fine and maybe jail as well

 

I agree. I think these birds were shot, and if it had been you or me, they'd have thrown the book at us.

 

I think persecution of raptors paints field sports in a very dim light. It's a subject I know a lot about, before anybody accuses me of talking out of my harris :look: I've got a soft spot for raptors and owls and I won't tolerate their persecution. They're not vermin and I think our countryside is a richer place with them in it, and that goes for the "bad boys" too, Goshawks, Hen Harriers and Peregrines. They do kill game birds - so live with it, otherwise the anti lobby will end up with more than enough ammo to bury field sports forever. I think persecution of raptors is one of the main clashing points between Joe Public and the shooting fraternity, it certainly is in my part of the world.

 

I know of many unpleasant incidents in Derbyshire especially, relating to shooters using threatening behaviour towards people trying to protect nesting Hen Harriers and persistent persecution of nesting Goshawks in the area. Everybody in the area knows what goes on, and all fingers are pointing straight at the shooting fraternity. I'm not just talking about a few barmy twitchers either, just ordinary people who enjoy the countryside.

 

I've seen Grouse shooters in Derbyshire take a potshot at a pair of Merlins during a Grouse shoot, in full view of a bunch of twitchers and other members of the public. Luckily, the t**ts missed, I suspect they couldn't hit a barn door, so nobody could use any concrete evidence against them, but everybody saw what happened, nobody was surprised and field sports went down another notch in Joe Publics estimation.

[wildoliver]

Pigeon racers are the worse culprits. I'm a big fan of birds of prey, they kill b@stard pigeons!

[njc110381]

As has been said above, although there's no evidence there's a fair chance they may be on to something. That little (prince) *** is always causing trouble, and nobody ever does anything to stop him because of who he is.

 

I like to see these birds around too. We don't have that kind of thing around our way but I do have a pair of Buzzards on my shoot. If I ever heard of anything happening to them, I'd do my very best to make life hell for whoever hurt them.

 

So they take the odd Pheasant, it's not like the guys on their 400 bird days can shout is it?

[Chard]

Pigeon racers are the worse culprits. I'm a big fan of birds of prey, they kill b@stard pigeons!

 

 

Pigeon racers are certainly the worst culprits with Peregrines.

 

However, Goshawks and Hen Harriers are the target of Grouse shooters and the big moorland estate keepers. I've spoken to one or two of them in Derbyshire, who have assumed that I'm sympathetic, just because I shoot.

 

Goshawks up there do hit the Grouse, but they whack mostly pigeons and squirrels, and they're pretty awesome to watch too.

 

Hen Harriers take Grouse chicks in the breeding season, so are rather unpopular on Grouse moors. This is where the RSPB lose credibility, because half the time, they try and insist that these birds don't take game birds.

 

I'm afraid shooters and the estates are going to have to accept that they'll have to share a few Grouse and Pheasants with the raptors, they won't win any friends amongst Joe Public otherwise. They're on a hiding to nothing, and the sooner they accept that raptors have a place in our countryside, the better for field sports in general. They might have difficulty in accepting it, but most country-lovers would sooner see a diverse wildlife, that includes healthy raptor populations, than a load of Hooray Henrys, excluding everybody and everything predatory from the moors.

 

I trespass routinely on the moors and I can tell whose land I'm on, by the absence or otherwise of raptors. Hen Harrier? Short-Eared Owl? Oh, I'm on North West Water land. Landscape totally devoid of life other than Grouse? Oh, I'm on Lord Headley-Smedley-Smythe's ******* estate :look:

 

If I can see it, Joe Public can too, no "hearts and minds" being won there. ^_^

[dustyfox]

Pigeon racers are the worse culprits. I'm a big fan of birds of prey, they kill b@stard pigeons!

 

 

Pigeon racers are certainly the worst culprits with Peregrines.

 

However, Goshawks and Hen Harriers are the target of Grouse shooters and the big moorland estate keepers. I've spoken to one or two of them in Derbyshire, who have assumed that I'm sympathetic, just because I shoot.

 

Goshawks up there do hit the Grouse, but they whack mostly pigeons and squirrels, and they're pretty awesome to watch too.

 

Hen Harriers take Grouse chicks in the breeding season, so are rather unpopular on Grouse moors. This is where the RSPB lose credibility, because half the time, they try and insist that these birds don't take game birds.

 

I'm afraid shooters and the estates are going to have to accept that they'll have to share a few Grouse and Pheasants with the raptors, they won't win any friends amongst Joe Public otherwise. They're on a hiding to nothing, and the sooner they accept that raptors have a place in our countryside, the better for field sports in general. They might have difficulty in accepting it, but most country-lovers, would sooner see a diverse wildlife, that includes healthy raptor populations, than a load of Hooray Henrys, excluding everybody and everything predatory from the moors.

 

I trespass routinely on the moors and I can tell whose land I'm on, by the absence or otherwise of raptors. Hen Harrier? Short-Eared Owl? Oh, I'm on North West water land. Landscape totally devoid of life other than Grouse, Oh, I'm on Lord Headley-Smedley-Smythe's ******* estate :look:

 

Yeap I keep an eye out for a pair of perigrines from racing pigeons owners, I have been informed by a person higher up not to say anything on the where abouts of it to anyone as words get out.

 

Also have any of you's seen that footage of a fox taking an adult hen harrier?

[Mungler]

There is no evidence that these birds were shot and that should be the end of the matter.

[webber]

I think that the only thing that may be balanced with the RSPB is its annual accounts.

 

There is no evidence that the birds were shot or shot at. Finding spent shotgun cases is not evidence, other than the shooters on the estate need to improve their technique, and remove spent cases.

 

webber

[jerico]

but sadly no harrier bodies were found.

 

Yea that's a bloody shame that is

 

What with being hit with shotgun loads in mid flight, tumbling through the air and finally crashing to the ground they don't mention whether any feathers were found in the area :look:

[Chard]

I agree that the "evidence" is laughable. It's not evidence at all on a shooting estate.

 

What concerns me, is that a load of schoolboy tittering about how clever we all are that we get away with these things is not helping the cause. When the public are forming an opinion in their minds about what goes on in the countryside, they don't need proof - their minds are made up. They might need proof in a court of law, but if we want to improve the image of field sports, then this kind of thing isn't great in the PR stakes :look: and of course, the antis know that.

 

It might be the end of the matter in the eyes of the law, but in the minds of tens of thousands of people who have read about this case, it's far from settled. It's just reinforced the blighted view that the RSPB and RSPCA promote, that we're just a load of bloodthirsty psychos, riding roughshod over the law and getting away with it, and that IS how many of the public view us, especially "bird-lovers" who are not necessarily barmy Bill Oddie-style twitching loons. There are hundreds of thousands of people in the UK who like birds, but are not manic or twisted ^_^ and it's their support that we could do with. You're never going to get the real Bill Oddie types on board, they're way too far down the "anti" road to listen to sense, but the vast majority of people with a love of the countryside could be useful allies (in my opinion)

[migster]

And here is some of the views of the birding community regarding the Hen Harriers debate,mixed to say the least.

 

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=32782

[Chard]

And here is some of the views of the birding community regarding the Hen Harriers debate,mixed to say the least.

 

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=32782

 

 

Interesting and scary.

 

Nigel G sounds a sensible chap - 3rd post down. He acknowledges that if it weren't for shooting and keepering, there wouldn't be any moors - and no Hen Harriers!