WGD Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 you'll have no problems finding a willing buyer. Back to your original post about how you were having problems finding one. Guess why there are not many S/H ones on the shelves!!!!! Mr U's budget seems to have gone to £1000, a mate of mine got a new MK70 Grade 1 for £950 so there shouldn't be a problem getting one... provided he doesn't decide he wants a Beretta :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazkb Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 given your scenario i would buy a browning cynergy black ice iv'e shot one and they are superb in my opinion and the synthetic furniture will last better in our countrys envoiroment i have nothing against miroku or any other make but as a permanently skint person i know what is good value ohh and i have tried an awful lot of guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Thanks All, your comments are really appreciated :blink: . I under estimated the traffic of this discussion and i am taking into account everything that is said seriously. Anybody would find it hard to part with £1000, however, aslong as it is worth it then what the heck! Again, there has been high regard for the Miroku MK70 and even the reviews prove so. After a banter with Dave Wood from York Guns, i have mutualy arranged to call in on saturday to have a butchers at the Miroku MK70 standard Grade (1) which is for sale (Cheers Markm for the recommendation )! the price is £985 (new), however, does anyone think i could squeeze a complimetary freebie....prefferably a half descent gun cleaning kit with the sale? This is my last question...honestly! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Thanks All, your comments are really appreciated :blink: . I under estimated the traffic of this discussion and i am taking into account everything that is said seriously. Anybody would find it hard to part with £1000, however, aslong as it is worth it then what the heck! Again, there has been high regard for the Miroku MK70 and even the reviews prove so. After a banter with Dave Wood from York Guns, i have mutualy arranged to call in on saturday to have a butchers at the Miroku MK70 standard Grade (1) which is for sale (Cheers Markm for the recommendation )! the price is £985 (new), however, does anyone think i could squeeze a complimetary freebie....prefferably a half descent gun cleaning kit with the sale? This is my last question...honestly! Cheers Mr U From guntrader.co.uk: Martin Perkin - Gun Shop, Rugby, Warwickshire Tel: 01788-575 198, Fax: 01788-546 360 - Gd 1 Miroku MK70, new, 30", multi-choked - £915 Ashley Gibbins - Northampton Gun Company, Northampton, Northamptonshire Tel: 01604-751 206, Fax: 01604-751 206 - MK70 as above - £915 Use these prices as a bartering tool and you should get something extra thrown in. Cheers WGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasbeaton Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 benilsoli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 wgd that will be a good bartering tool me thinks. Mr U you should get some stuff if you go for it, tell him about your posts on here and how you will praise york guns etc etc. I know a few guy who have travelled from newcastle to YG to buy as they normally do a good deal. Go for loads, if your happy with the gun ask for - a sleeve, bore snake, tin of quality oil, 250 cartridges, He will probably laugh at you but then say OK what are you going to give me to get the sale - suggest a bore snake, couple of boxes of cartridges and a sleeve. If he does not move say thank you for your time / effort and walk out. You can always go for a coffee then go back in. Its a buyers market in Jan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Go for loads, if your happy with the gun ask for - a sleeve, bore snake, tin of quality oil, 250 cartridges, :blink: markm - I'm considering a new gun in March, can you do my bartering for me!! Seriously Mr U, if you don't ask you don't get and as markm says there's not a huge amount of people throwing a grand around gun shops in January. WGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Ok ill try and work my magic :blink: Ill quote the price and name of the two guns shops that have the same gun listed for cheaper...surely this will encourage some extra's!...... im not too bothered for a gunsling.....but some cartridges, descent cleaning kit and snake bore would go down a treat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squodged Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) I'm new to this game and would not pretend to know as much as some on here concerning the reliablity or better or worse build quality between the better guns, But. I bought the Beretta 686S Sporter because its lighter than the Browning and Miroku. After holding the Browning and Miroku, I found them big and heavy and wide for me, and when I picked up the Beretta it felt great straight away. So, if he's a big Lad he may be able to handle a big heavy gun. Read this!! The world's 20 best shotguns (extract) Beretta 68 series over-and-under Beretta makes some of the most popular game- and competition guns in the world (with its production of over-and-unders exceeding 50,000 per annum). The 68 series guns are famously reliable and made, even in cheaper grades, from first-class materials; Beretta is one of the few manufacturers to maintain a sophisticated metallurgical laboratory on site and pays a great deal of attention to production consistency. All 68 series guns have bifurcated lumps, stud-pins at the knuckle and are locked by conical bolts that emerge from the breech face as the gun is closed and set in small round sockets either side of the top chamber mouth. This system is an especially clever feature of the design and, like the hinge-pins, may be replaced by over-size parts to allow for wear. The guns also have shoulder pieces on the barrels (replaceable in some competition models) which set in corresponding recesses in the top rear of the action wall. Beretta 68 series guns in 12- and 20-bore are among the most popular game-guns in Britain, with good reason. Recent models are available with improved stock shapes and a chemically achieved decorative effect mimicking traditional colour case-hardening. My favourite game model, however, is the side-plated EELL in 20- or 28-bore. It's a gun that will not disgrace itself in any company and costs under £4,115, a great deal of gun for the money. However, the plainer Silver Pigeons in 12- or 20-bore at around £1,500 are probably the best buys of all. Let me dare to ask one final question. What is the best gun in the world? I shall fudge the answer by putting it in the context of price. If I had up to £1,500 to spend my choice would be a plain grade Beretta Silver Pigeon 12- or 20-bore. If I had between £3,000 and £4,000 to spend, I'd buy a Beretta EELL or side-plated Caesar Guerini. With £5,000 or so in the bank, I would opt for a Perazzi or Kemen (the latter being an exceptional high-bird gun as noted). Remanufactured vintage guns from Atkin, Grant & Lang represent excellent value and allow for the confident everyday use of a hundred-year-old gun built to your exact requirements. Bosis side-by-sides also represent excellent value when one begins to consider capital expenditure. With unlimited funds, I would go for a new Holland Royal side-by-side or over-and-under in 12- and 20-bore respectively, or a Purdey pigeon-gun. If I were Italian, though, it might well have been a Fabbri. One gun on a desert island for the next 20 years? To use the vernacular, that's a no-brainer: the plain Jane Beretta Silver Pigeon simply could not be bettered. It offers the most reliable bang for the least buck. I would have a 28in-barrelled 20-bore if cartridges were available (because the handling qualities mimic those of a much more expensive gun), or a 12-bore if they were not. To read the whole article read this......http://www.thefield.co.uk/features/153911/The_world039s_20_best_shotguns.html Admittedly I am biased as I have the 68 series and it does everything and is light. Cost in a shop £600!!! I remember reading this article recently. When I first started shooting I tried and bought a Miroku 12g MK60 30" it cost £620 form Garlands. It was a lovely gun but seemed to suffer from what some blokes at the gun club refer to as Miroku creep on the trigger. This told me that the gun had maybe used a little more than I had first thought. This really did my head in. To compound matters I found that it didn't quite fit me so it used to kick me like a mule. So I went to another shop and swapped it for a Beretta 12g 682 Gold 30" that cost £850 which I really get on well with. The extra weight of the Beretta with it being a competition gun also helps with the recoil. Incendently the main difference between the MK60 & MK70 is the chokes. The MK60 is marketed as a game gun and the one I had was choked 1/4 & 3/4 where the MK70 is multichoked. Due to this the MK60 will tend to be slightly lighter and less mussle heavy than the MK70. Good luck, and remember buy what feels right not what the majority suggest you buy just because it feels right for them. Edited January 26, 2008 by squodged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Any difference in the Miroku MK60 and the MK70? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgit Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Mr U, You are taking a dangerous path it would seem? Don't make your mind up just yet. Look at the Beretta Silver pigeon and Browning as well, before you decide what to go for. I get the impression the MK70 is now the one you are honing in on here and thats not healthy at this stage. £1000 is a lot of money and you could buy a mint S/H Silver pigeon for that, as long as you like it that is? some of these guns won't feel right. You are now in the ballgame of where you could buy the better grade of gun SH with an oiled top grade stock and parts. Remember, you probably want to keep this gun for years. Ask the dealer to show you the better grades SH with low milage, and see what they come up with. Even the Miroku MK70 is made in cheap and top grades, take a good look and get the better gun. You will be so pleased you bought the higher grade S/H than a new one. The feel and quality of the higher grade, I think, is worth the money. But thats just what I think, of course. As long as the gun feels great to hold, is not to heavy, MK70 is a heavy gun! (some are far to big for some people) fits straight into the right places and gives you a real buz!!!! then that the one to get. Good luck mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caragh Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 While I would agree that you can get more gun for your money secondhand it helps if you have someone help you sort the wheat from the chaff not everyone takes care of their possesions unfortunatley. The grade 1 may not be the best looking gun for sure but the mechanicals ie the bits that really matter are identical on all the grades. I totaly agree on trying both beretta and Miroku I had a beretta a 686 and it kicked me all over the clay ground the miroku I now have does not and both guns are very close to one another in weight just a different fit. regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat 1 Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 I used to own a 682gold e,32 inch.Couldnt hit a barn door .Bought a 3800 grade 5, excellent :blink: . Budd Beatty won a silver last year at the commonwealth games with a beretta. P Murphy won SILVER AT THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS last year with a miroku. A Miroku seems to be a gun that fits most people, and this is the main consideration when buying any gun. I personally would think that as you appear to be starting out why not buy a very good trap Miroku and have it choked, That way if you decide to shoot sporting you can do so and also if you are good enough you could get your place on the team for the 2012 Olympics at OT. If you buy a sporter it will restrict your shooting of a lot of trap disciplines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgit Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Good info that Pat!! Just out of interest, did the 32in Beretta slow you down on the move. How does the 3800 differ from the Beretta? What barrells do you have now. The 3800 looks like a sporting gun to me? did you look at a Silver Pigeon.......................... All good stuff this for 'U' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petethegeek Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 All good stuff this for 'U' ...and me. I'm in a very similar position myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat 1 Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Good info that Pat!! Just out of interest, did the 32in Beretta slow you down on the move. How does the 3800 differ from the Beretta? What barrells do you have now. The 3800 looks like a sporting gun to me? did you look at a Silver Pigeon.......................... All good stuff this for 'U' I shoot mostly OT now . However I always felt that the beretta was a whippy type of gun,that is it nearly had a mind of its own which didnt suit me at all. Granted some people shoot exceptionally well with berettas. The 3800 is a trap model choked 3/4 and full,32 inch. The miroku appears heavy when you lift it but it is a dream to shoot . The balance seems to be perfect. Although I shoot trap I have used it at sporting and DTL. As for a Silver pigeon, no I did not consider one as I took it into my head that one encounter with a beretta ou was enough :blink: . I used to have an old 303 which was great for pigeon and duck. I now have an extrema 2 which I think is an excellent gun for its job. As was mentioned earlier I would agree that a higher grade gun seems to handle better, why I couldnt say. B) I know from my own experience that if I was starting to shoot I would buy a good 3800 or 38 grade 3 or 5 trap and have it choked by teague . I wish I had known this fourty years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgit Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Now I'm getting the story Pat, I hope you are all watching this now. Miroku 3800 with full and 3/4 chokes.... trap shooting.........32 inch barrells.............in my book that a great shot with those chokes in!! Although i've just started, I'm still using open and modified (1/4) with Beretta 686S sporter 28in and not yet got my eye in! but I'm trying. I think i've been over leading and can't wait to get out and correct this. I'm hitting 40 yarders (pheasants) and then missing the easy ones? This will not be your problem Pat. Again this shows that a natural eye makes a great shot with the added advantage of time with a gun. The greatest learning aid, apart from a good instructor of course. Lets just hope that 'U' gets the right one eh! Even more important that he gets one that fits him then!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I was indeed drawn towards the MK70, however, im beginning to walk towards the light of Barettas (not really thought about one). My local gunshop (Swillington Shooting Supplies) has a few berettas in. Ive seen on the gun list that they have a 686 Silver Pigeon, White Onyx and some brownings instock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgit Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Good...........................an open mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Gents, Rushed straight to the gunshop this afternoon after work. I was there for 2 hours looking and holding guns to get the 'right' feel with one. I tried the Miroku MK70 only to find that it was too chunky for me, i wanted a somewhat slimeline gun which was easy to handle and swing. The Browning B525 was on offer at the shop.....however, when putting the gun to my cheek all i could see was the top lever covering my sight of the bead! So, the Miroku and the Browning were a no no. I tried the Berreta silver pigeon, but it jsut didnt suite me and you were always fighting to get it open...i must admit it was a nice looking gun, but it wasnt maluble enough for me. I then cast my eyes upon the 686 White Onyx...now this felt great, the sight was brilliant, the woodwork was nice and the mechanisms were smooth and relaxed compared to the sivler pigeon. It was light, 30'' barrells and compatible for magnums and steel loads. After much thought I bagged it! (i didnt realise how ahrd it was consciously to part with £950). I bartered and got a cleaning kit and gun sling (as wellas the hard case it comes in - Cheers) I received a 10yr warranty and free membership to the Baretta club! Im gonig to be toying with it all day and night until Saturday which, for me, is the last day in the shooting season....no pressure! Anyway, thanks for all your advice lads, you really helped me making my decision. Who would have thought that after initailly trying to get my friend some advice on his first shotty to buy.....that i am swooped underneath the wings of Pigeon Watch and toggled into getting one myself! thanks again I wil psot some pics on the weekend! £950 well spent!! Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I have no experience with choke chubes what so ever....and ive got 5 to toy with with my berretta. I was under the impression that there was 3 types: Full Half Quarter Can anyone help me and tell me what: Improved modified Improved Cyclinder Cylinder Skeet Mean? I was told not to put steel though anything higher than Half Choke as this could damge the barrells...this turE??? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I have no experience with choke chubes what so ever....and ive got 5 to toy with with my berretta. I was under the impression that there was 3 types: Full Half Quarter Can anyone help me and tell me what: Improved modified Improved Cyclinder Cylinder Skeet Mean? I was told not to put steel though anything higher than Half Choke as this could damge the barrells...this turE??? Cheers Do you have a skeet choke? WGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 (edited) I have no experience with choke chubes what so ever....and ive got 5 to toy with with my berretta. I was under the impression that there was 3 types: Full Half Quarter Can anyone help me and tell me what: Improved modified Improved Cyclinder Cylinder Skeet Mean? I was told not to put steel though anything higher than Half Choke as this could damge the barrells...this turE??? Cheers Do you have a skeet choke? WGD **** no....i listed all that were in my manual...i was only supplied 5. Skeet being 6 Edited January 24, 2008 by MrUniverse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Oh well Mr U When you get sick of it you can always use it as a fencing mel. But serious If it fits then good for U. Just not my cup a tea. (and I have a teknys and had an al391 so I'm not anti beretta.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I have no experience with choke chubes what so ever....and ive got 5 to toy with with my berretta. I was under the impression that there was 3 types: Full Half Quarter Can anyone help me and tell me what: Improved modified Improved Cyclinder Cylinder Skeet Mean? I was told not to put steel though anything higher than Half Choke as this could damge the barrells...this turE??? Cheers Do you have a skeet choke? WGD **** no....i listed all that were in my manual...i was only supplied 5. Skeet being 6 Ok, what you'll probably have is Full, Improved Modified, Modified, Improved Cylinder and Cylinder - roughly translated as Full, three quarter, half, quarter and cylinder (i.e. no choke). There are notches on the end of the choke, 1 notch is full choke and 5 notches is cylinder. Unless you're shooting geese, stick in half and quarter and get shooting - worry about the differences later; there's loads of information available and different shot sizes and load weights create different patterns through different chokes but... if you miss, it won't matter what chokes are in, you've still missed!!! Glad you like your gun, that's all that matters... although the SP would have loosened up with use Enjoy mate and stay safe. WGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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