Shooting Insurance

[Country Boy]

Yes Hub, we have the same script, thanks.

 

Also... the TP&PLI which comes FREE with the membership of any of the SHOOTING SPORTS BODIES is I am sure quite adequate in most instances but with regard to sustaining any injury to ones self, I recommend purchasing from a 'known' insurer a basic personal accident policy - just in case - it could be worth it's weight in lead!

 

C.B.

[David BASC]

Hub,

 

I certainly won't 'black ball' you!

 

All I can say is in the 1000 claims experience I have, the underwriters have never asked if the member being claimed against has a criminal charge / conviction. I take your point - BUT - cannot see how any underwriter could make this a material fact in a negligence claim.

 

Assault is a criminal offence and suggests a degree of premeditation.

 

Accidentally shooting a beater, telephone line, cow, dog etc is negligence, and by definition precludes any premeditation.

 

Taking it a step further, if a drunk driver crashes into my car - then his car insurance will still pay for my damages, (they will not pay for any damages to his car) because it is not my fault that he is drunk. i.e his criminal act does not act as a material fact in my public liability claim against him, but the material fact of him being drunk will act to prevent the insurance company from paying for his own damages.

 

Please remember, that whether you think you are liable for damage is (to be blunt) irrelevant - it is down to the third party to prove that you were negligent, not for you to prove you were or were not (innocent until proven guilty). So why would you want to pay a lawyer to prove your guilt? Maybe I have missed your point - if so , sorry!

 

Remember also, that if the third party cannot prove you were negligent and thus liable for their loss, then you owe them nothing. When you are claimed against, your insurance company will take over employing a lawyer for you and paying for it to defend you if needs be.

 

As I have said earlier, the chances of being sued are slim - but the big picture is keeping shooting safe!

 

Ta

 

Davis

[FBF]

great topic. should be sticky.. must get over to basc and check out the prices.. bet its not cheap though right?

[David BASC]

FBF,

 

No we are not cheap - indeed, of all the shooting orgnisations we are the most expensive. But at the same time we are the largest - in excess of 127,000 members. Guess that in itself tells the story.

 

BASC main aim is to keep shooting safe- safe for now and safe for the future - and to ensure that shooters have:

 

[*]Something to shoot with

[*]Somewhere to shoot

[*]Something to shoot at

 

If you just want insurance, then shop around and get the cheapest deal you can (making shire you read the policy clearly before you part with your cash!) But as others have said on this forum, the insurance is well down the list of why they joined BASC, and if you become a member I hope that you take the same view- join BASC for what BASC can and will do for shooters, not just for insurance.

 

David

[dead-eye]

id go for basc

[PaulABF]

I've just signed up with SASC. As I'm a member of The Hunting Life Forum I was given a years cover for £22 (normal subscription is £26 I believe). Done it all over the phone in 2 minutes flat. Covered from the second I put the phone down and card and documentation should arrive by Fiday.

[Highlander]

I'm a great supporter of BASC because they above every other option work hard for our sport (where it counts) however I'd introduce one caveat here...read the small print and you'll find the insurance only covers you if your shooting (or BASC recognised fieldsport) is for 'recreational activities' and I know a number of you shoot as a business or at least claim to do so. It might (probably will) nullify your insurance. You have been warned!

 

I think you'll also find all the other options also only cover the 'recreational' side of your sport.

 

BASC and The CA are to my knowledge the only fieldsports organisations to offer a £10 million cover.

[David BASC]

Highlander,

 

Spot on, the BASC policy and to the best of my knowledge all others are restricted to recreational activities.

 

If any member of the forum is in need to professional or commercial cover let me know, and I will point you in the direction of a broker we deal with for commercial shooting risks.

 

Just goes to underline the point- be sure what you are buying.

 

I am glad that Paul got himself covered, (as many of you know I gent infuriated by people who shoot and:

a Are not insured

b. Are not a member of any shooting organisation

 

As he says, 'all done in 2 minutes' so obviously no disclosure of what is and is not covered, just take the money! Not saying their policy is no good- but evidently they are not declaring what is not covered- maybe Paul will find out on Friday...or when he makes a claim.

 

The big issue is, as Highlander points out- not insurance, but what else your membership their money on other things- as stated within their constitution if you want to know where you money is going.

 

 

Ta

 

David

[markbivvy]

As he says, 'all done in 2 minutes' so obviously no disclosure of what is and is not covered, just take the money! Not saying their policy is no good- but evidently they are not declaring what is not covered-

 

but he can phone them and speak to the main man.

and he is covered, unlike some.

[webber]

Mark

 

Judging by the SACS website, it would be difficult not to speak to the main man.

 

£22 membership, less say £10 to buy the insurance cover, doesn't leave a lot for supporting shooting by lobbying parliament etc.

 

webber

[markbivvy]

Mark

 

Judging by the SACS website, it would be difficult not to speak to the main man.

 

£22 membership, less say £10 to buy the insurance cover, doesn't leave a lot for supporting shooting by lobbying parliament etc.

 

webber

 

basc start at the top did they.

sorry to pi ss on your fire mate, but i tried the basc,and there are not that good.

i my opinion.

[David BASC]

As I wrote before - if you want cheap insurance there are loads of options out there- pay you money ,take your pick. Just make sure you know what you are buying, make sure they are registered with the FSA, make sure they comply with the FSA rules of product disclosure before you part with your cash.

 

However, I think many or maybe indeed most have 'seen the light' and have worked out that the chances of making a claim are very small- I bet SACS get maybe 10 claims a year or less, same with the CPSA and NGO, even BASC, larger than all of the others put together, gets well under 100 claims a year on the policy.

 

As Webber and others have said- it is what else your money is spent on keeping shooting safe, that really counts! After all if we lose the right to own sporting firearms, or loose the land to shoot over, or loose quarry to shoot at, it will not matter a hoot how good our insurance is!

 

Mark, I know you are happy with SACS and that's great, and the NGO have supporters on here and that is great too - we all have a part to play , we all offer different things, and it is down to you, the shooter to decide which organisation fits your and shootings needs, and indeed your pocket!

 

But whatever you do - please join something!

 

David

[markbivvy]

But whatever you do - please join something!

Amen.

[lurcherboy]

 

 

 

 

LB

[Tel Time]

BASC is not just insurance is missing from this topic, i have phoned for advise on a few occasions, like when plod was telling me i could not shoot from a straw hide in the middle of a hundred acre field, what other insurer could YOU phone to get instant advice like that?

 

IF the **** hit the fan then i would want BASC backing me and feel comfortable knowing that it was worth paying that few quid extra.

 

renewal time is here again

[FBF]

so is there a breakdown of costs available for this topic?

[webber]

From memory, the insurance element of the BASC membership package is around £10.50, which if you dig deep enough on the BASC website you will find the details of.

 

I understand that the other organisations are required to state the cost of their insurance, but seemingly don't do.

 

When you consider that some memberships with insurance are going for £22; I for one question if they are buying cheap insurance, or simply being frugal with the work that the budget organisation claims to do on behalf of its members.

 

If you assume that some of the budget organisations exist with around 10,000 members; and then multiply by the balance left from membership fee after deduction of insurance premium that leaves around £12 per member.

 

Therefore around £120,000. Deduct staff wages, rentals for office space, rates, and all the other expenses involved in running what is effectively a business. I find it difficult to see how such organisations can claim to be an effective voice on behalf of shooting, let alone the myriad of other field sports that some organisations also claim to represent.

 

BASC has well in excess of 100,000 members, and employs over 100 staff. The firearms department alone employs a similar number to the total staffing compliment of some of the budget organisations.

 

Live quarry shooting requires one unified organisation to deal with government and its departments. BASC are also active on a European level. I would much prefer to see shooters join any organisation, and be insured rather than see them shoot without cover. However when the chips are down, it may be too late to find out that the insurance and organisation back up are of little value. BASC does have a good track record, with articles quite regularly hitting the shooting press reporting on the successes of their legal and firearms teams. The press seems to be void of such stories from the budget organisations. I wonder why?

 

You pays your money & makes your choice!

 

webber

[Cosd]

David BASC, firstlty thanks for joining the thread and giving us (especially a newbie like myself) a greater insight to a minefield questions and answeres one has to the world of insurance.

 

Reading through many of the replies I have had to my question, BASC obviously has many fans votes here on the PigeonWatch Forum. How about offering our members some sort of discount like you do with the The Hunting Life Forum members?

 

The discount was mentioned in one of the replies to this thread.....

 

Cos

[David BASC]

BASC offer discounts to younger members, older members, gamekeepers, members in affiliated clubs or syndicates, students and members joining as husband & wife / partner already.

 

Please remember that the membership money is spent of keeping shooting safe – pardon the pun, but if we discount any further are we not running the risk of shooting ourselves in the foot? Cutting down the income stream that is spent of safeguarding shooting?

 

I remember one organisation that ‘invented’ what looked like a great discount structure aimed at (to be blunt) buying market share a few years ago. However, they had to stop a bit sharpish – when they found that members were switching en masse to the discounted structure and as such income was suffering.

 

We have developed and will continue to develop what we think is a good product. We will discount to some low income groups, we will discount to other groups that are easier for us to administer (such as clubs for example) – but to discount further would not be wise in my opinion.

 

It often angers me when I see discounts in shops - if the supplier can afford to discount now, why have they been over charging me all these years – or why is it when I stop buying something then, and only then am I offered a cheaper but equal product?

 

Tell you what- if any PW member who is also a BASC member, sees me at any show or event I will give you a free badge – worth at last £2.50 – how’s that? I am launching this year a ‘BASC Pigeon Shooter’ badge maybe some of you guys would like one when they are available?

 

David

[Cosd]

Thanks David,

I'll be joining BASC anyway, but since someone mentioned the discount on this thread I thought I'd ask to benefit all the members here.

 

Better take plenty of badges to the fairs the'll all be after one now

[gadgit]

So, whats the difference then between the NGO (£25) and the BASC £59)

 

How would they differ in a claim.........

[webber]

gadgit

 

I cant answer how they would fare in the event of a claim.

 

To contrast the different organisations you could visit their respective websites, you will get a feel for how active they are from that.

 

As DavidBASC has said BASC membership is far more than simple insurance. If you want shooting insurance on a budget there are several budget providers, all similarly priced. However if you want to support an organisation dedicated to supporting shooting in many of its various forms, then for me there is only one choice, and thats BASC. Not the cheapest, but you wont get a Jaguar for a Lada price. Insurance is but one strand on the BASC bow.

 

webber

[David BASC]

You would always expect that a valid claim on an insurance policy would be responded to – regardless of the supplier.

 

Under current UK law the insurer has just 90 days to accept or deny liability from the date that a claim is made on the policy. It is during this 90 day period that you- the consumer – find our how good your policy really is! It is during this period that the underwriter will put up any exclusion to the policy that prevents the claim being made for example. I have given examples on an earlier post.

 

The BASC policy is underwritten by Zurich – one of the largest underwriters in the UK, and the policy is brokered and administered by Marsh, one of the largest insurance brokers in the UK. The policy is a fairly standard public liability policy – but has been specifically tailored to the demands and needs of recreational shooters.

 

BASC, Marsh and Zurich meet several times a year to review the policy and the claims that are made to ensure that the cover provided does what is it supposed to – provide adequate protection for BASC members going about their recreational shooting, fishing, conservation, gundog , Gamekeeping and associated activities.

 

BASC have trained the claims handling team at Marsh on shooting and shooting related activities so when any member speaks with them, the member can rest assured that they are speaking to someone who knows about shooting. And is on their side!

 

BASC and certain staff- me included, are registered with the Financial Services Authority (FSA) – this means we have to stick to strict rules on how we sell and promote the insurance part of the BASC package. These rules are here to protect you- the consumer. Almost all of the other ‘shooting organisations’ are NOT registered with the FSA.

 

All claims that are made on the policy are registered with Marsh in the first insurance and then passed to Zurich (this is normal procedure) a copy of the claim then comes to BASC (me specifically) for review. Most of claims are straight forward the remaining few need further investigation or clarification. Of these that need further investigation, Zurich will refer back to BASC to make sure that the activity that resulted in the claim is a recognised recreational shooting & conservation related activity and is thus covered under the policy.

 

Do smaller shooting organisations have the resources to oversee develop and manage their insurance offering to the same level as BASC? Especially when they are supposed to be delivering on all the political lobbying, local and national media communications, membership services, firearms licensing liaison etc that they suggest they do – you decide.

 

It’s your money put is where you think it will do the most for you AND the most for shooting.

 

David

[markbivvy]

Once again david top post. .

you and webber sound like dell boy and rodney, your pushing it that hard.

 

firearms licensing in the uk is a joke, you only have to read the threads on here to find that out.

 

so someone there aint listening mate.(I have also said this to my own shooting organisation)

 

said it before you do a good job for some, but for them that dont shoot game

and just want a walk out at the weekend other options may be better.

[David BASC]

Mark, (or should I call you 'Trigger' )

 

it always amazes me that we get accused of being just for 'posh shooters' by some and just for 'wildfowlers' by others-

 

BUT the basic stance that BASC takes to keep shooting safe covers ALL shooting, driven, walked up, rough, wildfowling stalking, pigeon, target etc etc:

 

Something to shoot with

Somewhere to shoot

Something to shoot at

 

Firearms licencing- yep could be better, could at least be bl**dy consistent! We are doing our best with our team of five in the firearms department and it is a case of plugging away - negotiation and diplomacy is sometimes better than hitting the FEO and his team with a full blown legal challenge- this can sometimes be counter productive as I am sure you can see.

 

See ya

 

D