al4x Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Bit like only being allowed to shoot on land deemed suitable with a closed ticket there are still places on most land that common sense has to kick in I think you made need to explain this statement in more detail Rob - A closed ticket is only of benifit to an inexperianced shooter, as the onus is on the police to deem the land suitable and therefore safe to shoot They open the entire farm, so you still have roads houses and footpaths to think about, so though the police deem it safe you can't just loose off rounds with total safety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusk2dawn Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I am sure then when we take an animals life- be it a pest or for food, we owe it to the animal to kill it cleanly. So why are we not allowed vermin on the .223 then Do you have vermin on any c/f rifles please Just looked at my Kent cert and it says ".22 .17 and .223 for shooting fox and vermin and for zeroing on ranges or land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot." D2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Bit like only being allowed to shoot on land deemed suitable with a closed ticket there are still places on most land that common sense has to kick in I think you made need to explain this statement in more detail Rob - A closed ticket is only of benifit to an inexperianced shooter, as the onus is on the police to deem the land suitable and therefore safe to shoot They open the entire farm, so you still have roads houses and footpaths to think about, so though the police deem it safe you can't just loose off rounds with total safety Yes Alex - my comment was more about the fact if you give an open ticket to a first time shooter, your just asking for trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted February 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 (edited) Bit like only being allowed to shoot on land deemed suitable with a closed ticket there are still places on most land that common sense has to kick in I think you made need to explain this statement in more detail Rob - A closed ticket is only of benifit to an inexperianced shooter, as the onus is on the police to deem the land suitable and therefore safe to shoot They open the entire farm, so you still have roads houses and footpaths to think about, so though the police deem it safe you can't just loose off rounds with total safety Correct Yes Alex - my comment was more about the fact if you give an open ticket to a first time shooter, your just asking for trouble no problem with closed tickets but being you and Paul 223 are on me doorstep and get vermin without all the trouble im getting , think all forces should use the same script and common sense . And who you calling a first time shooter B) Edited February 28, 2008 by magman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I wasnt refering to you young Robert B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Rob, You have fallen into the trap of putting common sense and the firearms licensing programme in the same sentence! If common sense was applied ALL the time, we would probably reduce the number of calls from members by over 50%! You have first had experience of the duplicity of this particular FLO – one minute they are putting .22 CF on for vermin for one chap, next minute they are telling you to wait 12 months! The rationale behind this? You tell me? Believe it or not this force is better than it used to be – but there is still allot of work to do, both with this force and nationally David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 (edited) not wanting to point out the obvious but I don't like the HP's for this reason, they punch through far too well leaving a very small hole without enough trauma, You certainly can't say the same for the Vmax rounds as you've found. Its not a dedicated foxing gun but how ofter when lamping rabbits do you get foxes sub 100 yards, The caliber is perfectly capable at that range and carrying a centre fire on the off chance is particularly inconvenient. As for the BASC argument if you don't like something just move on and take your business elsewhere as you would with pretty much anything else you buy Fully aware of the effect of the 17gr ballistic tipped rounds but in reality the 20grn HPs actually hit harder due to the fact that they penetrate better before expanding, thus imparting more of their energy INTO the fox rather than blowing up on entry. Granted they work extremely well on closer foxes but on 100yd ones they didn’t seem to penetrate enough which is why I used the 20grn HPs (they were more accurate as well). This subject has been done to death and will continue as such because it is so objective. At one time I was as confident as many .17HMR owners about its capabilities as a fox round because it had performed very well on the first two or three foxes and then it all went tits-up and it didn’t seem to work very well. OK again for another couple and again another horrendous event. Put me off the HMR which is why I sold it and bought a little .22Hornet. Much more fun and has the benefit of being able to reload for it. G.M. Edited February 28, 2008 by Graham M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 At one time I was as confident as many .17HMR owners about its capabilities as a fox round because it had performed very well on the first two or three foxes and then it all went tits-up and it didn’t seem to work very well. OK again for another couple and again another horrendous event. Put me off the HMR interesting post this graham, and one similar by dead eye ive makes me think the rounds are not what they used to be. had my hmr out last week , first time for a while as ammo purchasing has been a problem. no blown apart rabbits heads with the last lot of 17grn hornadys. very different gun to the one i bought nearly 4 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I think a lot of people buy these rifles without thinking about just what the bullet actually is. It’s a little pill the same bore size as a .177 air rifle pellet (.172) that is elongated to make it up to 17grns (3grns heavier than a .22 pellet). This is then hurtled down range at 2550fps and can be devastating in ideal conditions. But the trouble is because it is so light it loses velocity at a very fast rate and once it has passed 150yds it is slowing down alarmingly. Which is why I smile when I read posts on other forums about eejits shooting foxes @ 200yds with one. The 20grn bullet is a little better in the wind (but not that much) and when the wind picks up to over 5 mph you can be over 3 inches off target at 100yds. My firearms dep’t will grant one for fox, but only because they have gone along with the hype. I spoke with my own FEO about this and we both reckon most of them got muxed ip with .17Rem when they were evaluating the .17HMR. Who knows!!!!!!!!!! G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted February 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Stayed with basc in the end thanks for all the replys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 I think a lot of people buy these rifles without thinking about just what the bullet actually is. It’s a little pill the same bore size as a .177 air rifle pellet (.172) that is elongated to make it up to 17grns (3grns heavier than a .22 pellet). This is then hurtled down range at 2550fps and can be devastating in ideal conditions. But the trouble is because it is so light it loses velocity at a very fast rate and once it has passed 150yds it is slowing down alarmingly. Which is why I smile when I read posts on other forums about eejits shooting foxes @ 200yds with one. The 20grn bullet is a little better in the wind (but not that much) and when the wind picks up to over 5 mph you can be over 3 inches off target at 100yds. My firearms dep’t will grant one for fox, but only because they have gone along with the hype. I spoke with my own FEO about this and we both reckon most of them got muxed ip with .17Rem when they were evaluating the .17HMR. Who knows!!!!!!!!!! G.M. When I applied for a 17 Rem some years ago my local firearms dept asked me why I wanted a variation for an air rifle! Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 When I applied for a 17 Rem some years ago my local firearms dept asked me why I wanted a variation for an air rifle! about right for some feo,s don. Unbelievable but right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Time Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) where can i get more detailed info on the .17's? the range and drop off speed suprised me greatly as i am thinking of adding one, only for rabbits at distance, but why not have a .177 air rifle, at say 1000 fps doing 30fpe? moderated and cheaper. mods feel free to bump this as another thread or point me in the right direction. and i am renewing my BASC membership in the next few days because they have given me sound advice and where available to talk to when i needed them Edited February 29, 2008 by Tel Time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Stayed with basc in the end thanks for all the replys Wise choice little fellow :) :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 where can i get more detailed info on the .17's? the range and drop off speed suprised me greatly as i am thinking of adding one, only for rabbits at distance, but why not have a .177 air rifle, at say 1000 fps doing 30fpe? moderated and cheaper. mods feel free to bump this as another thread or point me in the right direction. and i am renewing my BASC membership in the next few days because they have given me sound advice and where available to talk to when i needed them http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Time Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 quality! thanks for the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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