Cranfield Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I am not sure what this means.What "rack and ruin" is the UK shooting community facing by "lack of sustainable income" ? ‘Protecting’ is somewhat different to’ facing’. The whole of the UK economy is slowing down, and more and more people will be feeling the pinch, including the shooting communities. Myself, and lots of shooting friends, are already being almost ‘priced’ out of shooting, by simply having to prioritise, and several shooting estates will have no doubt been saved by ‘foreign’ money’. It is after all, with the cost of shooting, being more than the value of the quarry, a luxury! Surely, any income that will help ‘protect’ the thousands of jobs in the Scottish shooting industry, and rural communities, should be actively sourced. Not forgetting, many of the shooting, and country sport communities in Scotland, will be BASC members, and entitled to representation. Pirate: I don't believe that "thousands of jobs in the Scottish shooting industry" will be "protected", by Scottish shooters having to pay for pigeon shooting and general agricultural vermin control. However, I agree that the whole of the UK economy is slowing down and many shooters are finding it more and more expensive to carry on with their interest. Game shooting (in the main) has always been a fee paying interest, as has clay shooting. Price rises in these areas are regrettable, but understandable and we can all make our choices accordingly. However, those that provide a service of controlling agricultural vermin (at their own expense) under the General Licence, have not customarily paid the Farmer/Landowner to do this. It is not reasonable for any Organisation that represents those shooters, to suggest that it is right for this to happen and indeed to encourage it. If shooters find they are having to pay for their vermin control activities, that will price many more out of this activity. People lost to shooting and members lost to the BASC, now and in the future. If vermin control under the General Licence loses its, "providing a free service to the Farmer/Landowner" tag, then we can expect further encroachments into the terms of the General Licence, which could include close seasons, reclassifications, training, bag limits, etc. Whilst this may not bother some shooters, I think it will seriously concern the vast majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Personally Cranfield on the subject of vermin shooting being charged for etc I don't see foreign shooters to blame or the BASC but certainly have experience of one of the larger pigeon shooting "companies" offering farmers enough money to get the local shooters kicked off, then sitting back with many thousands of acres till there were enough birds to put on a good days paid for shooting. To me this isn't really complying with the general license but is a more pressing issue than game shooting being promoted Edited March 13, 2008 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I wholeheartedly endorse Cranfields comments above. I only wish I could have put it so succinctly. It beggars belief that any person or organisation representing shooting interests would think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Dear All, I agree with these sentiments. I can assure you that in ALL activities that I will be involved with to uncover and promote shooting opportunities, I will NOT recommend that farmers ask for payment for pigeon / vermin shooting. I WILL actively promote that shooters offer FREE pest control. Turning now to ‘pigeon sporting agents’ a couple of points here (and think this has the potential for a thread of it’s own!) Check our how many hundreds of thousands of acres are under the control of these guys across the UK. Lets say it is 250,000 acres (I believe it to be more than this in Scotland alone – but lets take this as an example) That would represent say 100 farms. Now not withstanding the desire for us all to have out own individual permission- lets say these farms came on the open market for free pigeon shooting for us guys, would we accept to share each farm between say 5 of us?...So 500 of us now get some shooting,, the farmer gets as good pest control, everybody (well almost) happy. OK I am off now to put my tin hat on as all the pigeon guides across the UK attack me for this, possibly they may call my boss and demand that I am disciplined or sacked! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 David My spare flack jacket is being couriered over as I type! I feel that pigeon guides do offer service, but they only exist because shooters patronise them. Its supply and demand, all over again! webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Sam Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 BANG. That will be £1000 please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Thanks Webber, i think I iwll need it. Sam, is that £1000 including VAT and gratuity? D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I'm with you David on the guides issue. Basically they pay at a level where the farmer accepts crop damage from pigeons as lets face it when people pay to shoot pigeons they want to actually shoot a good bag. This means the agents need big acreages so they can in effect leave fields to get hit before having a good day at them. They have certainly got a lot of the frebie shooters kicked off round my way. Its a far bigger issue than people coming from abroad to pay for game shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) You can all argue and blame BASC untill your blue in the face, but it will do no good - we need to support our shooting economy and a major way of doing this is by selling stalking,shooting,etc to our foreign counter parts. i agree that it may end up costing us in the long run ( in lost shooting and money), but without our support to some of these shooting estates, we may end up losing our shooting all together as they will turn the land to other enterprizes. BASC do alot for our shooting community and you should be supporting them not trying to shoot them down in flames ( and remember i am not even a BASC member - i support the NGO) Edited March 13, 2008 by tulkyuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 My belief is that the Pigeon and Goose Guides provide a facility for those that don't have the time, the inclination, or are not in the right location, to get their own shooting. I know wildfowlers that have duck shooting at "home", but still undertake the annual pilgrimage to Scotland for a weeks goose shooting and have done for 20 plus years. These aren't rich people and this is their annual indulgence. I have a friend who lives in London and buys three or four days Game shooting a season, plus a few days shooting pigeons with a Guide, either on the drillings, or stubbles. He loves shooting , has a very busy working life and can afford to pay for his shooting in this way. Incidentally, he also buys a couple of days Guided pike fishing on the Broads. There will always be a place for Guides, they have been around for years and I don't think they are taking over the countryside. They satisfy the requirements of only a small proportion of shooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 you reckon Cranfield its a business and one without restraints, with more marketing and more shooters prepared to pay for shooting pigeons they need a big area to shoot on. Near me 20,000 acres has been taken up in the last couple of years by one company with all pigeon shooters kicked off the farms in question. If that happens much more then pigeon shooting will be payment only over much of the UK, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I have to say, I am always willing to try and see things from other angles, and this discussion has highlighted several areas of contention, many being very valid. I now have a better understanding of the plight of the vermin shooter, and surely that’s what discussion forums are all about. But from the Scottish shooting industry’s point of view, I still contend that they must be patronised to survive, and if we, as UK shooters don’t, can’t, or won’t do it, then shooters from Europe must be their next avenue for income, and I whole heartedly applaud the BASC for their support of the Scottish shooting industries. Pirate: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Hi Cranfield. "I don't believe that "thousands of jobs in the Scottish shooting industry" will be "protected", by Scottish shooters having to pay for pigeon shooting and general agricultural vermin control." I was talking about European money protecting the Scottish shooting Industries, not the locals shooters. Pirate: Edited March 13, 2008 by Pirate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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