Rugger 17HMR + Hornaday 20G HP

[ShaggyRS6]

Well, I have not been shy is stating my Ruger likes nothing else but the Federal V-Shock Balistic tips. Wont fire anything else.

 

HOWEVER!!!!!!

 

When stocking up at the weekend the chump in the shop told me about the new'ish Hornaday 20g Hollow Point. so I bought a box.

 

I dont have any pictures but the grouping is fantastic. i.e. within a 20p at 100 yards. im lucky if I get within a 50p with the Fed's. The only problem is the rifle needs to be re-zeroed for them and I have to get rid of the 400 Fed's i just bought.

 

To give you an example how far off the zero is, I shot five shot at the centre of the target (remeber, the rifle is zeroed for the Fed's ATM) the Hornaday's all landed within a 20p (near as damn it) about 3 inches to the left and 3 inches low

[casts_by_fly]

yep, my savage liked the 20 gr soft points best when it was newer. After a little more shooting it liked federals. Now it prefers TNT's but shoots ballistic tips fine. I'll keep shooting what I've got on hand until accuracy drops off. Glad you've got something your gun likes.

 

thanks

rick

[Evilv]

st bought.

 

To give you an example how far off the zero is, I shot five shot at the centre of the target (remeber, the rifle is zeroed for the Fed's ATM) the Hornaday's all landed within a 20p (near as damn it) about 3 inches to the left and 3 inches low

 

I can understand why it might shoot higher or lower, but why would the point of impact move to the left? That must be down to windage surely?

[casts_by_fly]

barrel harmonics.

 

My 22LR will shoot 7 different ammos to 6 different points of impact, none of which are on the same line. If I use one aiming point it will look like I shot the target with buckshot. My 30-06 does the same. For the longest time it was sighted for 165 gr ballistic tips over a stout load of IMR4350. They were pushing 2850 or so. I wanted to hunt coyotes with a lighter load so I picked up a box of managed recoil 125 gr loads that do about 2600fps. You'd expect the loads to be off up and down, but the 125's shot 4" left and 4" high at 100 yd. It is just a matter of where the barrel is pointing in its harmonic cycle when the bullet leaves the barrel.

 

Thanks

Rick

[ShaggyRS6]

Yep, i thought it was strange and read up a bit. I found out what Rick has stated.

[Evilv]

barrel harmonics.

 

Yep, i thought it was strange and read up a bit. I found out what Rick has stated.

 

 

Outstanding! Of course - now that all makes perfect sense. Thanks. I've been puzzled about how by taking off my sound moderator the rifle seemed to shoot to the left. I convinced myself it was due to windage blowing the .22 bullets left. The wind was in that direction, but thinking about it now, the with and without mod trials were done within minutes of each other. I suppose a five inch long mod screwed on the barrel will effect barrel vibrations in the same way as different explosive and bullet weights.

Edited June 16, 2008 by Evilv

[lurcherboy]

So what do they cost per brick Shaggy?

 

Did you get my message on the mobile?

 

 

 

 

LB

[plinker]

they won,t kill as well as the ballistic tips,imo though shaggy

[Wookie]

You reckon? A ballistic tip is only a hollow point with a nice dust cover on. I reckon if you hit the target, they will kill it just the same.

 

Mind you, I would like to see a nice, scientific (or similar) study on expansion between the two types. Anyone care to volunteer? Also, what's the difference in velocity between the two?

[al4x]

You reckon? A ballistic tip is only a hollow point with a nice dust cover on. I reckon if you hit the target, they will kill it just the same.

 

Mind you, I would like to see a nice, scientific (or similar) study on expansion between the two types. Anyone care to volunteer? Also, what's the difference in velocity between the two?

 

doesn't seem to work like that though, the BT's do seem to expand and break up far more doing far more damage, the HP's can just go straight through which imparts less energy on the target. Fine if you hit something critical but not as good if you pull the shot a little and hit a patch with no vital organs. I hate getting runners and with the BT's they are incredibly rare I can't say that about the hollow points

[stuart92]

i guess its like air rifle pellets?

[ShaggyRS6]

So what do they cost per brick Shaggy?

 

Did you get my message on the mobile?

 

 

 

 

LB

 

 

I got the text message Chas They are 13 per 50.

 

The BS are a great round, normally always leave a hole the other side. I have been shooting loads of babies these past few weeks, through the scope you can see the inards pop out the other side.

[casts_by_fly]

I haven't shot 20 gr hollow points, but I've used 20 gr psp's, 17 gr TNT's, and the 17 gr ballistic tips. Killing wise they all do the job the same with the same shot. I haven't shot as much with the PSP's so I won't comment there. The ballistic tips blow a bigger hole than the TNT's for sure. However on hares, rabbits, crows, and pigeons a shot in the kill zone is a dead animal with either; a shot outside the kill zone is not an immediate death.

 

thanks

rick

[Wookie]

BT's seem to work for me I have to admit and you get exactly the effect Shaggy was talking about. It's a brutal way to take a bunny and makes a bit of a mess sometimes.

[plinker]

hmr is a small, light round , with a fairly high velocity,this can cause over penertation hence ballistic tips are the preferred round increasing the kill zone,the ballistic tip hmr is undoudtably the better hunting round,that is why it outsells the hollow point by a large margin.

[casts_by_fly]

plinker,

 

I'd like you to cite some evidence that the BT is undoubtedly the better hunting round. I think the last 30 hares that I've shot with the TNT would disagree. The BT rounds outsell the HP or PSP rounds by a wide margin because of the numbers of BT's offered compared to the number of others. There are no less than 7 different BT rounds that I can think of off the top of my head. I know of 3 non BT's (not counting the FMJ if they still make it) and most stockists will carry only 1 or two. Yes, the BT is more explosive and for some things is a better round. That doesn't make it the better hunting round by any margin though.

 

Over penetration? You're talking about a bullet with a .125 ballistic coefficient and a sectional density of 0.084. For comparison, the SD of a 55gr .224 is almost double that, and a 100gr .243 is triple that. Yes, a HMR will penetrate further than a lot of people give it credit, but over penetration is not one of its virtues.

 

thanks

rick

[plinker]

cast by fly

i can only tell you what myself and others i shoot with have experienced,we have all had more runners with h/p than ballistic tips and yes if you head shoot every rabbit both will kill equally as well,but not every shot is a head shot and there can be no doudt that b/t do more damage which is prefrable in the chest area, not every b/t opens up admitidly but on the whole the are more effecient .

me and some of my shooting buddies shoot hundreds of rabbits over the summer months,with a variaty of calibers both r/f and c/f but the hmr is the most popular out to 200yds and by far the most popular round is either remmy or hornady ballistic tips,and i am confident if you polled the hmr users on here (who shoot rabbits) you would get similar results.

thats my opinion anyway :unsure:

[casts_by_fly]

I can agree with that. For rabbits, BT are probably best.

 

My shots range from head shots to rib shots with the TNT's. Head shots produce the most movement after the shot with either bullet. I've had hares that are missing the back side of their head but still did a lot of bouncing around. Neck and shoulder shots are always bang-flop. I've never hit one int he guts or rear legs to know what those shots do.

 

thanks

rick