markbivvy Posted October 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) hi M. i got sent this link and believed it. http://www.ccc.govt.nz/QuickAnswers/Animal...lation/F646.asp thanks just had another look at it and cant beleive i did not read it right.******................... Edited October 7, 2008 by markbivvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallarben Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 i was told by a vet if u put in your ad make good work or pet you cover your self nobody nos if every pup in a litter is going to work for what ever reason if we did i wouldnt still be looking for a ftch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyboy30 Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 my springer bitch had one pup 10 wks ago had it legally docked microchipped and dew claws removed £25.00 all in i have got a certificate to send to kennel club when i regester here i had to show my game keepers tickets and sgc to vet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB REYNOLDS UK Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 vet told me all you have to show is your shotgun ticket at the vets and they will dock the tails of your dog ..by having a shotgun that makes you a hunting man so that makes your mut a working dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted October 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 I phoned one vet last week in Leeds, he asked for my name and address as he was going to report me as the op is illegal. the rest you dont need to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Mark, Maybe should report him for being incompetent and not knowing the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jef Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Unfortunately if my bitch has pups, hopefully around 2010, I'll be unable to get the pups docked anyway. My only hope is that the ban is overturned by then but who knows. The bitch herself was born in 2007 and is undocked. It will be interesting to see how she gets on in the coming season. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 I agree with WDG and everything he says is correct, you've no worries whatsoever on the dog being docked. In fact it's easier now to get the tails docked of a working breed than it was before the docking ban came in last year, and thankfully it's only working dogs who are now docked, as opposed to it being done for cosmetic reasons. The all important exemption for 'Working Dogs' was won after much lobbying of MP's by the President of the National Working Terrier Federation and Vice Chairman of the Jack Russell Terrier Club of GB, Mr Barry Wade. If it wasn't for his hard work there would be a total ban across the board on tail docking, and it's all down to him there being an exemption clause written into the Bill. If you breed a working dog and you want the pups tails docked as that breed used to have, all you have to do is download the tail docking exemption form from the DEFRA web site, or ring them up and they'll email it to you. Then you have to have proof you work your dogs by having a letter from a recognised organisation like the National Working Terrier Federation, doing Pest control, Gun dogs etc, then many vets who wouldn't dock in the past will now do it once you have the correct paperwork. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 In fact it's easier now to get the tails docked of a working breed than it was before the docking ban came in last year This seems to fly in the face of some folks experience on this forum as can be seen from the previous posts, not to mention pretty much all the shooting press articles on the docking situation in England. What is your evidence that makes you believe it is now easier to have docking carried out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 I am a member of the National Working Terrier Federation, The Fell and Moorland Working Terrier Club and the Jack Russell Terrier Club of GB. I breed working Jack Russell Terriers, have all the paperwork required and a vet who will dock the pups tails for me and remove the dewclaws. Before when I had my pups tails docked I had to go through the Council of Docked Breeds, who then put me in touch with a Vet who would do it for me and it was all hush hush, even though it wasn't illegal. Section one of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (Section six) dealing with docking exemption requires the owner of the dam to have evidence/identification from one of the following: Armed Forces Emergency Rescue Police Prison HMRC Evidence that the owner of the dog will be using the dog for lawful pest control A current shotgun or firearms certificate used by the owner of the dog where it is used in the lawful shooting of animals A letter from a Gamekeeper, Land Occupier or his agent or a person with shooting rights, a shoot organiser, a club official, a person representing the National Working Terrier Federation, pest control.................. Under the new laws exemption applies for working dogs which are used in certain specified activities such as, Section Five - Specified activities Law enforcement Activities of HM Armed Services Emergency/Rescue Lawful Pest Control The Lawful shooting of Animals Section Six - Specified types of dogs Hunt point retrieve breeds Spaniels of any type or combination of types Terriers of any type or combination of types Any pups docked now have to have all the details of their owner and the dam filled in on a DEFRA form and signed by the vet. The dogs also have to be chipped and again signed by the Vet, although they don't usually do this until they are around 12 weeks old so if the pup is sold the new owners will have to have the form filled in. The form is then supposed to stay with the owner/s as proof the dog's tail was docked legally. There's no reason why anyone here who shoots and uses one of the docked breeds shouldn't be able to get their pups tails docked. If your current vet won't do it, find one who will, there's plenty of vets into hunting shooting and fishing. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 I forgot to say, this only applies to England, Scotland have a total ban on docking and you can thank your Scottish Parliament for that. If it wasn't for Mr Barry Wade of the National Working Terrier Federation, that total ban would also apply in England, and he was lobbying MP's right up to the last minute to get the exemption clause put into the Bill for working dogs. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobparker Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 my wife has been breeding and showing a docked non working breed for almost 16 years , the CBD had little impact on the docking laws,and we had to travel over 50 miles to have puppies docked by vets from their lists, cosmetic docking was frowned on by many people and i am getting used to tails and if i was honest prefer them, why then do vets still remove dew claws, before the docking problems started it costs about a tenner a litter for tails and claws, when the news of the total ban was coming 20 quid per dog, as for cosmetic docking ever seen a full coated show yorkie covered at the rear with ****,if they dock lambs to ovoid fly strike why not dogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 I forgot to say, this only applies to England, Scotland have a total ban on docking and you can thank your Scottish Parliament for that. If it wasn't for Mr Barry Wade of the National Working Terrier Federation, that total ban would also apply in England, and he was lobbying MP's right up to the last minute to get the exemption clause put into the Bill for working dogs. Cheers A very slightly biassed view there. It was not just down to one man why the total ban never happened in england, there were a lot of organisations involved. BASC were one of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 A very slightly biassed view there. It was not just down to one man why the total ban never happened in england, there were a lot of organisations involved. BASC were one of them There were a lot of organisations involved, the Council of Docked Breeds, the Countryside Alliance, BASC to name but a few, and as it was going the ban was still going to be across the board. However, the exemptions were written in at the very final stage of the Bill. That final stage was the desired outcome of many, but primarily down to one man's persistence, lobbying and hard work where all the others were failing......no exaggeration, no bias, simply how it happened. It's been mentioned here how there's all this grey area within shooting and how it's hard to get dogs docked, and the BASC to be honest aren't a lot of help. Yet it's the complete opposite within Terrier circles and I don't know of anyone who has had any trouble getting their pups docked. That's how it should be within the shooting world, but it clearly isn't, why is that ? Because the BASC aren't advising or looking after their members properly ? The exemption clearly covers anyone who shoots and uses a dog for work as I have shown, and if that be a traditional docked breed there should be no problem getting the animal docked within the new law. The BASC have their advantages as an organisation, but in my opinion they aren't nearly so vocal as they should be within Country Sports and at times seem to disappear up their own a-se. When the Hunting Ban was on the table they didn't do nearly enough as they should have done and barely moved until they thought that shooting was possibly going to be next. Heaven forbid..........NO MORE GROUSE OR PHEASANT, MY LORD.......... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Sorry to completely disagree with you, But it wasn't Mr Barry Wade who sent out lobbying forms to everyone and put them in every magazine and pushed the matter into the public eye. The only printed matter that I saw throughout the whole docking ban fiasco was from the BASC. Maybe I didn't see anything from the terrier clubs because I have a spaniel but from my view it was lead by BASC. I know you won't agree with this and there will be loads of BASC knocking replies and the join SACS roadshow will be along late as usual buy you cannot argue with the above facts. It was not a single persons effort and anyone who thinks it was it in short a fool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 I am not a fool, sir. I am also not in anyway claiming that he was the sole person responsible for lobbying, but the Lobbying forms you mention did little to sway the debate and the total ban was still going to be written onto the books until the last minute. Perhaps it has escaped your attention, but the National Working Terrier Federation is the only country sports organisation which actually has it's name on the DEFRA document. No other apart from the Military, Police and Rescue Services etc. Why would that be do you think ? Because they played a major role in putting together the final draft of the legislation perhaps ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Perhaps it has escaped your attention but the word "TERRIER" does not appear in the act anywhere. It does not specialise it refers to dogs or animals. They may well have played a part in the act, but they are not one person like you seem to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Perhaps it has escaped your attention but the word "TERRIER" does not appear in the act anywhere. Taken directly from the DEFRA Form, which includes the exemption sections of the Act: "Section Six - Specified types of dogs Hunt point retrieve breeds Spaniels of any type or combination of types Terriers of any type or combination of types" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Animal Welfare Act This is the act, not some information leaflet from DEFRA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 The Act in full is totally irrelevant and it's the exemption clause which is important here, and what we are discussing. This is not some fly-by-night information leaflet I am quoting you, but the actual DEFRA exemption form you have to fill in and get the Vet to sign when you are getting your dog's tail docked. The most important document. Or have you not seen one ? I suggest you check one out before shouting your mouth off and trying to belittle people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallarben Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 iv seen the defra form but what a load of bull the tail docking is are local vet shoots and hunts he has 2 springers and will not dock tails of are pups we have to travel 25 miles to get them done talk of split personality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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