Santlache Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Sunday lunchtime. Not feeling too bright I decided to take the dogs down the fields I have permisson on for a quick run out then home, but the day didn't quite turn out as expected. At about 1-15pm I lost my smooth Russell bitch, she'd got through a fence to the field opposite and had found the Fox earth I was trying my best to keep them away from. I had a feeling she would have gone there so made my way over with my other bitch and sure as hell she was onto something and I could hear her baying below. With no location collar on I'd have to wait until she reappeared. After two hours it went silent, it's quite an extensive earth so I wasn't too concerned at that point. After five hours I was starting to get a little worried as I had not heard her for 3 hours and it was starting to get dark. So I rang my local Fell and Moorland Working Terrier Club area rep and he got two fellow members local to me, Alan and Jonathan, to come over and give me a hand. They arrived about 8-30pm and we right away collared up a nice little Russell bitch and down she went. She was initially onto a rabbit so we dug her out and tried one of the other entrances and within a minute she was still below ground. The location said 4 feet down so we pushed a hole down with a T bar and with your ear to the ground we could hear both dogs baying away merrily. Down we dug, and after 10-15 minutes my bitch came out first followed by the other, so we collared up another bitch and set her down to find the fox again. The other dog was straight onto to the fox so we dug down again and pulled her out. The vixen had retreated into a dead end chamber and had three cubs with her, so we backfilled the original hole and left her there in peace so she could move them out after we'd gone. A text book dig but one I'd rather not have done. All the dogs did a superb job especially my bitch, who had worked the fox for almost eight hours and all she had on her was a scratch mark above the eye. Although annoyed and at the same time relieved, I was very proud of the way she'd done her work. This is not an advert or promotion, but the Fell and Moorland Working Terrier Club do a Terrier Rescue service for dogs trapped below ground and one I never thought I'd have to use. But partly through my own stupidity I did have a need to use it and the ten pound a year membership is the best insurance one could buy. Alan and Jonathan came back to my place after and we sat for a couple of hours chatting over some beers telling each other stories, thanks again chaps, and at the next club meeting next month I will be making a donation to the club. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 So why leave 4 foxes after all that graft ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 An excellant job by your Bitch, and a great job by everyone involed in the recovery. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 You have a sound bitch santlache LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 So why leave 4 foxes after all that graft ? Because we are not cruel, have respect for our quarry and a strict code of conduct to follow. We didn't know if the Vixen had other cubs in another part of the earth, which would have been left as orphans and die of starvation. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 An excellant job by your Bitch, and a great job by everyone involed in the recovery. NTTF Thanks NTTF It was a textbook job, but what was also so pleasing was I spoke to another friend who works his dogs in the Midlands while I was waiting for her to come out, and he had also got a team together to come down to help. You have a sound bitch santlache LB Thanks, LB, she's the best worker I've ever had and she has never, ever let me down. Her only problem, if you could call it that, is that she is full on and wants to work ALL the time. But she's fine with other dogs which made things a lot easier when putting another dog down to locate her. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith_henson Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Because we are not cruel, have respect for our quarry and a strict code of conduct to follow. We didn't know if the Vixen had other cubs in another part of the earth, which would have been left as orphans and die of starvation. Cheers Good call - i agree with you on this one K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Because we are not cruel, have respect for our quarry and a strict code of conduct to follow. We didn't know if the Vixen had other cubs in another part of the earth, which would have been left as orphans and die of starvation. Cheers What code of conduct is it you follow ? Is it a self imposed code of conduct or is it a guideline from somewhere ? I agree you should have respect for your quarry and i have the utmost respect for the fox,it is one of the smartest critters out there,but the vixen will become more of a pest when she is feeding cubs and the cubs will grow up and do the same damage as mum,So like i said why leave them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 with the number of terriers that had been down the hole odds are any cubs would have been dead if they weren't with the vixen anyway. Guess its just lucky the hole was on the land you had permission on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 What code of conduct is it you follow ? Is it a self imposed code of conduct or is it a guideline from somewhere ? I agree you should have respect for your quarry and i have the utmost respect for the fox,it is one of the smartest critters out there,but the vixen will become more of a pest when she is feeding cubs and the cubs will grow up and do the same damage as mum,So like i said why leave them ? . The legal controls on terrier work are re-inforced by the National Working Terrier Federation Rules and Codes of Conduct, which were recognised and approved by the Government departments as part of the Hunting Act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) -- Edited February 25, 2009 by Santlache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 The legal controls on terrier work are re-inforced by the National Working Terrier Federation Rules and Codes of Conduct, which were recognised and approved by the Government departments as part of the Hunting Act. ? If you are saying you are going strictly by the legal controls as part of the hunting act then i think you will find that entering more than one terrier is going against this and is infact illegal acording to the hunting act. I was talking about "your code" in relation to leaving the fox and cubs and not dispatching them.I recall the code goes along the lines of dispatching the vixen and cubs and then re-entering a terrier to locate other cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Entering two terriers is illegal, but not in the case of a rescue, which this was. The fact that she stayed down on her own accord is neither here nor there as we were not to know she hadn't been killed, got stuck or the earth had caved in on her and she couldn't get out. The earth was long established and quite extensive, therefore we did the most humane thing in our actions and acted responsibly. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I have edited this post to leave the relavent information intact. If there is anymore personnal attacks on each other I will close it and issue holidays! Have a Nice Day NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) I have edited this post to leave the relavent information intact. If there is anymore personnal attacks on each other I will close it and issue holidays! Have a Nice Day NTTF Thank you for stepping in and doing the right thing. Further my last, I have spoken to the Chairman of the National Working Terrier Federation and explained to him what we did. He said our actions were perfectly acceptable and were well within the law and that we acted responsibly. Cheers Edited February 25, 2009 by Santlache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 And by the way nowhere in the hunting act does it say you can enter another terrier to rescue another terrier but dont let the facts get in the way of a good story eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sir I was not out hunting with my dogs, therefore what happened does not come under the Hunting Act and was classed as a 'Rescue'. Had my bitch been wearing a location collar the intent to hunt would have been there, it wasn't, therefore what we did was perfectly acceptable and within the law. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I think we will have to agree to disagree as i dont think there is such an exception as entering terriers for a rescue,and anyway i am off out lamping now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 If a Terrier enters a Badger Set under such circumstances, a rescue may not be initiated until MAF have been contacted and a representative comes along to weigh up the situation and the Set. Until then you may not enter another Terrier to locate the animal and MAF will usually wait for 24-48 hours before allowing another Terrier to be entered to 'Rescue' the other dog. If a Terrier is entered in a rescue attempt before MAF give permission, you are breaking the law and can be charged with interfering with a set. No such regulations exist for rescues in fox earths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Surely if you allow a terrier to enter a badger sett anyway you are breaking the law. You are not allowed to interfere in any way with a sett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I don't disagree, you would be breaking the Law and deserve everything they could throw at you. Only a complete idiot and numbskull would willingly allow a Terrier to enter a badger sett and let it face an animal two and a half times it's own body weight. However, these things do happen accidently with Terriers due to their breeding. There was a case not so long ago where just such a thing happened down in the SW I believe it was. Some old ladies terrier had entered a sett while out on a walk and the Fire Brigade, MAF and Police all got involved trying to get the terrier out, even sending down tubes with cameras on trying to locate it. The dog was down for over 24 hours and they couldn't get it out, then a hunt terrierman was called and they rescued it after sending down another dog with a location collar on and they dug it out immediately. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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