fieldwanderer Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'm getting a .17hmr soon and to keep costs down I'm saying goodbye to one of my .22s (no fee for variation). IF I apply for an extra moderator (I'm already alowed one but apparently I'd have problems if I had both with me) Will that mean I need to pay for the variation or will it still be free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-munsters Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 £26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I know how much a variation costs mate but as I'm getting rid of a .22 it's free (because I'm not adding a gun) BUT, if I apply for another moderator, will it still be free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) Moderators as you will know are classed as firearms. If you are increasing the amount of held "Firearms" (Including mods) then the variation fee will apply. Pretty poor, but that's the way it is unfortunately. Edited March 25, 2009 by humperdingle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 the new .17 can share a mod of your 22. you don't need mods for each gun, only authority to use. are you getting a specific mod. and i am sure its £26 for the variation , not per item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moses Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I saught advice on this from BASC as I was usure how it worked they told me that; You cannot legally use one mod for two calibres. If you have a slot for 22rf say and 22 mod, you buy rifle and mod and your slots are used and both rifle and mod are written on your ticket. If you then apply for 17 rifle and mod you buy the rifle but, you are using the 22 mod so the 17 mod is not on your ticket and technically not in your posession as legally aquired. So if you were stopped with a 17 with mod on you are breaking the law because you have a 17mod you do not legally posess. You only have authority to use one that you legally aquired. ATB Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I saught advice on this from BASC as I was usure how it worked they told me that; You cannot legally use one mod for two calibres. If you have a slot for 22rf say and 22 mod, you buy rifle and mod and your slots are used and both rifle and mod are written on your ticket. If you then apply for 17 rifle and mod you buy the rifle but, you are using the 22 mod so the 17 mod is not on your ticket and technically not in your posession as legally aquired. So if you were stopped with a 17 with mod on you are breaking the law because you have a 17mod you do not legally posess. You only have authority to use one that you legally aquired. ATB Moses thats interesting as the mod is in theory separate and listed separately on your license. Mine is also listed as an unknown make so I would have thought that as long as you had permission to aquire / posses for both calibers then you would be fine. Its another of those letter of the law things where you would have to be extremely unlucky to have an issue with it, after all most of the rimfire moderators are proofed for both calibers so you wouldn't be doing anything wrong from that point of view. Though for £30 I'd just buy another SAK mod and make sure both mods are unknown make and then you can do what you like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Ring Frank (Palenski) in Firearms licencing on 01522 532222 and ask. Advice from other areas may not apply to us in the republic of Lincolnshire and vice versa. Its not the best system and its certainly not nationally standardised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 thanks guys, I'll probably be bending the rules a bit and just sharing the mod to be honest - I can't afford the variation fee at the moment so, tough lol. My fac doesn't say anything about the mod's caliber or what rifle it's for and it's listed as unknown so, as I see it, as long as I haven't got both rifles (with mods on) with me it won't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 thanks guys, I'll probably be bending the rules a bit and just sharing the mod to be honest - I can't afford the variation fee at the moment so, tough lol. My fac doesn't say anything about the mod's caliber or what rifle it's for and it's listed as unknown so, as I see it, as long as I haven't got both rifles (with mods on) with me it won't matter. I'm afraid it will matter. If you get caught using a rifle that has not been authorised for use with a mod you will be in serious trouble and risk losing your fac. Why don't you ask your firearms licensing dept to amend the condition on your existing mod to include use on both calibers. That way you are not increasing the number of firearms/mods you have and therefore will not have to pay a variation fee. I have done this on several occasions and my firearms licensing manager has been only to happy to oblige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 It's down to the conditions of use. They will say what you can use, where and on what. No reason at all why a .22 moderator can't be used on more than one rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Charlie, I'm pretty sure there's no specific cal's or rifles for the mod on my f.a.c so I take it there wouldn't be any way of knowing if it was meant for the .22 or the .17 but because there's only one mod on my f.a.c, I'd have a problem if I was found with mod's on both at the same time. That's what I meant. I'll check though and if I'm wrong I'll be following your advise, I may well anyway - as long as you're positive there'll be no charge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) The conditions will say something like "The .22rf s/n *******, the .17 hmr s/n ******** and the .22 moderator s/n none may be used for the shooting of vermin and zeroing on land over which the certificate holder has permission to shoot" Some will have the addition of "land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for that area". No specific mention of what rifle(s) the moderator can be used on. The fact that you have one on your ticket and a condition for use is enough. Bear in mind that the moderator itself is classed as a firearm in its own right. Edited March 25, 2009 by DaveK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harv Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 The conditions will say something like "The .22rf s/n *******, the .17 hmr s/n ******** and the .22 moderator s/n none may be used for the shooting of vermin and zeroing on land over which the certificate holder has permission to shoot" Some will have the addition of "land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for that area". No specific mention of what rifle(s) the moderator can be used on. The fact that you have one on your ticket and a condition for use is enough. Bear in mind that the moderator itself is classed as a firearm in its own right. so if it states a .22 moderator then it cannot be used on the.17hmr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 so if it states a .22 moderator then it cannot be used on the.17hmr? Does it say that it can't? It says it can be used for the shooting of vermin. Doesn't say on what. Conditions for .22 - vermin Conditions for hmr - vermin Conditions for moderator - vermin is there anwhere that states "can only be used on......."? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harv Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Fac's dont state what the firearms cant be used for but what they can be used for. It is worded the.17 rifle and the .17 moderator, the .22 rifle and the .22 moderator i.e. in connection with not either or. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) Fac's dont state what the firearms cant be used for but what they can be used for.It is worded the.17 rifle and the .17 moderator, the .22 rifle and the .22 moderator i.e. in connection with not either or. Thats nice for you Harv. probably because you asked for all of them. Equally someone could ask for one moderator to be used on both firearms. I actually have a .223 moderator listed on my ticket for use with an HMR. But lets not turn this into a pi55ing contest. Edited March 25, 2009 by DaveK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 on my initial i asked for .22lr, .17hmr, .223, .308, .22lr mod, .17hmr mod and .223 mod, Got everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harv Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Thats equally nice for you dave and that was my point it must be stated for which rifles it can be used on. didnt you state in an earlier post not specific to any rifle? and what exactly is a a pi55ing contest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Thats equally nice for you dave and that was my point it must be stated for which rifles it can be used on.didnt you state in an earlier post not specific to any rifle? and what exactly is a a pi55ing contest? But it isn't.. You get what you ask for. I use my .223 mod on my .223 and HMR. They are on your ticket, you own them, you have authorisation to use them. How you use them and in what combination is up to you. You ask for a .17 moderator and get one and put it on a .22, you'll blow it up so obviously you can't use it elsewhere but get a SAK and use it on both .22 and hmr. Bear in mind we can't all afford a moderator for each rifle. Some people heve to maximise the use of one for more than one calibre. And ................................. Everyone knows what a pi55ing contest is. It's a contest where the 5's are replaced by S's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-munsters Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 thanks guys, I'll probably be bending the rules a bit and just sharing the mod to be honest - I can't afford the variation fee at the moment so, tough lol. You wont be "bending the rules" you will be breaking the law. If you want to risk your FAC, and a criminal record, for a paltry £26 (about equivalent to a single box of 17HMR!) then that is your decision. If you do decide to break the law, I would suggest you do not advertise the fact on an internet forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 its bending the law but personally what I'd do is put in for a one for one and just list the new rifle & Mod and odds are they won't charge you the variation fee. Of course we could argue the technicalities all day long but you'd need a very very pernickity plod to spot it and even more so to make an issue out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallet Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I'm with Moses on this as He and myself almost got hauled up on this Firearms Officer when selling a moderator. Once designated on a license as a calibre that mod is then classed as that calibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I'm with Moses on this as He and myself almost got hauled up on this Firearms Officer when selling a moderator. Once designated on a license as a calibre that mod is then classed as that calibre. But mine's got no make or serial no. listed and isn't assigned to any perticular rifle - it IS listed as .22 but then is that the mod or the rifle you intend to use it on!? I'll be following the advise and asking to use a mod on all rifles, one mod fits all as they say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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