Why americans love guns by ross kemp

[stevethevanman]

Its on now on...sorry I didnt post sooner as it is really interesting

 

Sky One

 

Or

 

Sky Three on freeview (I think)

 

Steve

Edited May 27, 2009 by stevethevanman

[LeeinVA]

No need to watch him dude just ask me honorary brit and resident yank

[stevethevanman]

No need to watch him dude just ask me honorary brit and resident yank

 

Well they are saying, that the public have availability to weapons which can defeat police body armour...as they only carry pistol level balistic vests...they say a 223 assault weapon can go straight through them...I knew that, a shotgun at point blank could make you die of internal trauma, but what ross kemp cant get is why, people need something that kills to protect you?

 

Two simple rules to beat this:

 

1. People have no faith in the resposne times of police, or there ability to protect them well enough.

 

2. People feel safer they can protect themselfs and not have to rely on others such as the police.

 

Tell me if I am wrong?

 

Steve

Edited May 27, 2009 by stevethevanman

[swift4me]

In my gun store in LIBERAL California, I sold long guns and no handguns or handgun ammo. Most of my customers also owned something that would protect them in their home, (short shotgun, handgun, etc.), and a few had concealed carry permits.

 

Every time something like Hurricane Katrina would happen, or a riot somewhere that incited looting, etc, the number of phone calls we would get for handguns would go WAY UP for weeks afterward. As a long term trend, the interest by people who had never owned or shot a gun, most of them previously anti-gun, was staggering.

 

Last year when sporting gun sales were very soft, stores that sold handguns had them standing 10 deep at the counter. Every gun range was full of first time shooters.

 

Eventually, like you said above, people realize that they need to be able to take care of their own. They don't care about someone else's right to defend themselves UNTIL it is their ox being gored, then things change.

 

Just my perspective.

[Wookie]

Perspective is always good Swift...

 

I have a lot of friends in Florida, most of them with concealed carry permits, and I think their most popular choice of firearm is an AR15 for home defense. Of course, they can't use that on their CCP, so they have something like a Glock or USP for when they only need a pistol. One guy's wife wouldn't get a CCP, so he bought her a shotgun instead (for home defense).

 

The last range I went to over there had a lot of ARs and similar for sale as "2nd amendment specials". Thjey said their sale of that class of rifle had increased by 50% after Obama's election.

[Dr_Scholl]

Perspective is always good Swift...

 

I have a lot of friends in Florida, most of them with concealed carry permits, and I think their most popular choice of firearm is an AR15 for home defense. Of course, they can't use that on their CCP, so they have something like a Glock or USP for when they only need a pistol. One guy's wife wouldn't get a CCP, so he bought her a shotgun instead (for home defense).

 

The last range I went to over there had a lot of ARs and similar for sale as "2nd amendment specials". Thjey said their sale of that class of rifle had increased by 50% after Obama's election.

 

AR-15's are by far the most popular semi-automatic rifle among American gun owners now. I have one myself, and another on backorder. But sales have gone from high before Obama got elected to astronomical now. DPMS, one of the top AR manufacturers in the country, is over 160,000 guns backordered as of a few weeks ago. In other words, if you ordered a gun from them today, it would be 12-24 months before you got it, depending on the configuration and caliber. It's safe to assume that the number of AR-15's on backorder right now is over half a million. Before Obama, there were an estimated 1.2-1.5 million AR-15's among U.S gun owners. That should give you some idea of the extent of the buying frenzy. Things have calmed down now, but it'll take manufacturers at least 6-8 months to catch up and put a dent in their backorders.

[swift4me]

Just yesterday in Oklahoma, two guys tried to hold up a pharacy. The employee cashier grabbed his pistol then shot one of them in the head, (but not killing him), then chased the other one out of the store, then came back to find the headshot one lying on the floor and he put 5 more into the guys chest.

 

He was charged with first degree murder. An anonymous person put up the $100,000 bale. Keep your eyes on this one. With the financial crisis has come a bit of a turnaround in sentiment amongst the liberals. I hope he gets off.

 

Thirty some years ago in a farming community in central California, five Mexicans walked into a bait shop/liquor store I used to buy bait at, and started throwing stuff around. The owner soon found himself with a knife at his throat, and the other four standing around the small shop looking at him. His owners dad came out of the back room having heard something, and in the distraction, the owner grabbed his 9mm under the counter and shot the guy over his shoulder in the head. Then shot two more of the others in the store, killing at least one of them, then shot the fourth one outside of the store and then chased the fifth down the highway on foot emptying his gun. The police arrested the fifth Mexican and charged him with the murders of his buddies and the store owner went home without any legal consequence.

 

That's the America I know.

[Baldrick]

Swift, the Amercians are very lucky that the law tends to favour people protecting themselves, their family and their property (in that order). Sadly, in the UK, we have the Tony Martin case as the legal precedent, backed up by the despicable ECHR.

[Bleeh]

Swift, the Amercians are very lucky that the law tends to favour people protecting themselves, their family and their property (in that order). Sadly, in the UK, we have the Tony Martin case as the legal precedent, backed up by the despicable ECHR.

 

As true as that might be - I still rather have british gun laws.

 

This is because 90% of any population, is made up of idoits, and I believe there is less chance of me getting killed if guns are regulated, than if you allow any cock jawed townie have one.

[swift4me]

Bleeh:

 

Unfortunately that is what the liberals in the US think too. If we could go back in time, and there were no guns in anyone's posession, your idea might work.

 

 

Most politicians in the US already have, or can easily get, concealed carry permits, or at least round the clock security. I guess it's because their lives are SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than mine. I'll take the chance on some of society's losers having guns as long as I can have mine. Remember, a great number of potentially lethal carjackings, rapes, home invasions and robberies are committed without guns as well.

 

 

It is a fact that in states with higher gun ownership, and higher numbers of concealed carry permits, there is less random crime involving guns, as the perpetrators don't know who is carrying. They think twice.

 

I think the fact that these "townie idiots" can reproduce at will, eat cheeseburgers and fries until they weigh 300 pounds and need publicly funded diabetes medication, etc., etc., etc. is more of a concern than the fact they can posess a firearm whether legally or otherwise.

 

I'm interested to hear, what is your impression of the trend in violent crime in the UK in the last ten or fifteen years?

 

Thanks,

 

Pete

[fullbore]

As true as that might be - I still rather have british gun laws.

 

This is because 90% of any population, is made up of idoits, and I believe there is less chance of me getting killed if guns are regulated, than if you allow any cock jawed townie have one.

 

Spoken as only someone from Norfolk could! Do you honestly think that because we have laws, there are no illegally held guns? Seems strange then that a lot of the drugs gangs and the like have acces to hand guns, MAC 10s explosives and on and on. So what are you going to do if one of these drug crazed idiots comes charging down on you or your family? Yell get orf moi laarnd, and throw a turnip at him?

[Bleeh]

Spoken as only someone from Norfolk could! Do you honestly think that because we have laws, there are no illegally held guns? Seems strange then that a lot of the drugs gangs and the like have acces to hand guns, MAC 10s explosives and on and on. So what are you going to do if one of these drug crazed idiots comes charging down on you or your family? Yell get orf moi laarnd, and throw a turnip at him?

 

 

Well, I never said anything about criminals.

 

People are more lightly to kill me by being an idoit than trying to kill me.

 

For example! look at this :- all of these are in the US.

 

Man uses gun as a drill, Shoots his wife by mistake

 

Someone gives a 8 year old a Uzi, everyone surpised as he shoots himself in the head

 

3 year old given access (did they leave it on the bloody floor?) to a loaded Assualt rifle - shots himself

 

Tolder shoots himself in the head with a loaded pistol - (Where'd I leave that danged thing?! *bang!* oh thar!

 

7 year old shot in head by man loading a gun - Obviously with the saftey of and his finger off, a cartridge in the chamber, and his finger on the trigger

 

2 Year old shots herself in the head. (Dam fullbore! Good thing we've all got guns to protect ourselves from 2 year olds!)

 

6 year old finds mothers gun behind a bed - Lucky to be alive

 

bunch of 6 year olds play with stepfathers gun, - State in shock after somehow one of them got shot.

 

 

 

3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States in 2002 (neahin.org)

 

 

Does anyone else see a patten in this?. Guns are safe in the hands of responsable adults. I don't know that many responsable adults.

 

 

AND BEFORE someone says ''that's cos everyone in the uk gets stabbed'' What the hell would that change? you want to upgrade the weapons used by our yobs?

Edited May 30, 2009 by Bleeh

[Ozzy Fudd]

AND BEFORE someone says ''that's cos everyone in the uk gets stabbed'' What the hell would that change? you want to upgrade the weapons used by our yobs?

 

no, id prefer to be able to shoot them than have to try to stab them back

 

ignoreme, i just couldnt resist mate

[stevethevanman]

You quote some of the accidents in america with links but this is old news..17 people are killed in the U.S. everyday by firearms, and at the end of the day if someone attacks you and you have a pistol. Your going to feel better, than if you didnt have one, and the anti concealed carry people might just quickly change their mind.

 

"Its better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it"

Edited May 31, 2009 by stevethevanman

[swift4me]

Bleeh:

 

It looks like you're getting information about the US from Anti-gun groups. You could have found alot more good stories about people who died or killed other with jet-skis, snowmobiles, chainsaws or maybe even bread machines.

 

Nobody ever said there weren't idiots about. But if everyone who wants to defend themselves in their own home has to go through the seemingly difficult maze I read about on this site, then that system is not written for the every man.

 

Would you give up your guns? If they asked nicely and promised you that no idiots would have guns either?

 

I didn't think so. We all have the potential to be idiots for short periods of time at some point in our lives.

 

Be glad you have them and don't deny others the same right. A few innocent people will be killed in stupid accidents regardless.

 

Pete

[Devilishdave]

To be fair any one stupid enough to give a kid access to a fire arm should not be allowed to breed!

 

Dave

[swift4me]

To be fair any one stupid enough to give a kid access to a fire arm should not be allowed to breed!

 

Dave

 

I totally agree with that, but as I've said, we watch as these same people let their kids become diabetic, obese, criminal, and por members of society. Why aren't we alarmed about that?

 

Pete

[cubix]

Yes, I believe I should be alowed to carry a gun for personal, home and family protection.

 

The problem is, but I don't think anyone else should be allowed to

 

Geddit?

[swift4me]

I just read a post by a very intelligent young man who was hassled by some thugs while walking around his neighborhood with friends. They eviodently wanted his cell phone. No, I'm not advocating him having a concealed permit... (but it would shock the **** out of the scum to see the end of a pipe pointed at them I think)...

 

But the same thing happens to people in America, and everywhere else, every day. The police tell you, "don't fight back, let them have what they want because you're insured for it." The reality is that you have the right to defend yourself, and the society's right to tell you... "Oh no, we'll make sure you're safe mate, no problem... just give us a ring on the telly and we'll be over right swift". B.S. The thugs know that too. The horse is out of the barn when it comes to guns in the hands of criminals.

 

In most American cities, and I would guess in big cities in the UK, unless you tell the dispatcher that someone has been shot, killed or stabbed, the response time may as well be two days later for filing a report.

 

The agressors in the world, whether they be North Korea, Iran or these thugs who screwed up the young lad's Sunday afternoon, are laughing at us now. Years and years of softness cultivated by a climb in relative wealth have left us unable to even identify our enemies and/or acknowledge the right to defend ourselves.

 

I'm only so adamant because I see the same thing happening in America today.

 

Have a nice week, and take posession of your turf if you haven't already.

 

Pete

[Dr_Scholl]

I just read a post by a very intelligent young man who was hassled by some thugs while walking around his neighborhood with friends. They eviodently wanted his cell phone. No, I'm not advocating him having a concealed permit... (but it would shock the **** out of the scum to see the end of a pipe pointed at them I think)...

 

But the same thing happens to people in America, and everywhere else, every day. The police tell you, "don't fight back, let them have what they want because you're insured for it." The reality is that you have the right to defend yourself, and the society's right to tell you... "Oh no, we'll make sure you're safe mate, no problem... just give us a ring on the telly and we'll be over right swift". B.S. The thugs know that too. The horse is out of the barn when it comes to guns in the hands of criminals.

 

In most American cities, and I would guess in big cities in the UK, unless you tell the dispatcher that someone has been shot, killed or stabbed, the response time may as well be two days later for filing a report.

 

The agressors in the world, whether they be North Korea, Iran or these thugs who screwed up the young lad's Sunday afternoon, are laughing at us now. Years and years of softness cultivated by a climb in relative wealth have left us unable to even identify our enemies and/or acknowledge the right to defend ourselves.

 

I'm only so adamant because I see the same thing happening in America today.

 

Have a nice week, and take posession of your turf if you haven't already.

 

Pete

 

I don't have a lot of confidence in the government looking out for me in any shape or form. Back when I was 14, someone threw a molotov cocktail at our back fence. It warped the siding, burned a section of the fence down and gave my sister smoke inhalation. When we first realized what was going on, we went out there and started fighting the fire with our garden hose. The neighbor called the fire department. The fire station is half a mile down the street, and it took them over 20 minutes to show up.

 

If we had waited for them, our house would've burned to the ground.

[njc110381]

I'm not sure allowing our citizens access to guns for home defense is a good idea. It would be nice though to think that if someone with a knife broke into my house I could put a golf club to the back of their head without being sent down for it. I don't like to hear of anyones life being taken, criminals or otherwise. What really bothers me though is that when the time comes, you have to give careful consideration to how you defend yourself if you don't want to end up in the ****.

 

I know where I stand. I'd rather be in prison than dead

[Baldrick]

Just learn from Tony Martin, and do what he omitted to do: in the hypothetical scenario that one had to shoot someone posing a genuine threat, make sure it's a licensed firearm that's used, that a warning shot is fired into in the ceiling, and then assuming said warning is not heeded, shoot every assailant dead. Leaving stragglers is just poor form.

 

Don't choose a pump action or semi-auto 12b - you'll find that an O/U or S/S is much quieter to work and reload.

[Bleeh]

Just learn from Tony Martin, and do what he omitted to do: in the hypothetical scenario that one had to shoot someone posing a genuine threat, make sure it's a licensed firearm that's used, that a warning shot is fired into in the ceiling, and then assuming said warning is not heeded, shoot every assailant dead. Leaving stragglers is just poor form.

 

Don't choose a pump action or semi-auto 12b - you'll find that an O/U or S/S is much quieter to work and reload.

 

 

He'd of fared alot better in the courts if he didn't shoot one while he was running away.

[cubix]

It's a back to front and selfish argument.

 

Allow us to carry handguns for personal protection, then society gets flooded with handguns, only then do you need a handgun for personal protection.

 

The only way you'd be allowed to do this is if the law let everyone do it - so you get your own way, but then our kids get to grow up in a society where guns are rife.

 

You'd be creating a problem that doesn't exist.

 

All illegally held guns start of as legally held ones somewhere.

 

I'm alright Jack!

[Baldrick]

You don't need to permit handguns. What does need permitting is the right to use lethal force to defend yourself and your family, as is permitted in the USA. The current legal provision for 'reasonable' force is open to wide-ranging interpretation by the judiciary, and is does not grant much comfort to victims of crime.