Muntjac

[nipper]

"all this best practice rubbish half the BDS and BASC cant hit the broad side of a barn"

 

"now thats funny,go and read your BDS and BASC guide to shooting mate."

 

 

 

You rubbish the BDS BASC on one post ,then recommend it on another?

"still hasnt got his first yet " !!obviously not experienced on Muntjac yet !

 

 

And Yes ,superstalker !? I have shot Munties ,the first over 25 years ago ) (chest shots with minimal damage ) ,and I even wait untill they leave cover before I take the shot.

 

Havent changed my mind yet !.I will wait untill your book comes out

[Ackley]

"all this best practice rubbish half the BDS and BASC cant hit the broad side of a barn"

 

"now thats funny,go and read your BDS and BASC guide to shooting mate."

 

 

 

You rubbish the BDS BASC on one post ,then recommend it on another?

"still hasnt got his first yet " !!obviously not experienced on Muntjac yet !

 

 

And Yes ,superstalker !? I have shot Munties ,the first over 25 years ago ) (chest shots with minimal damage ) ,and I even wait untill they leave cover before I take the shot.

 

Havent changed my mind yet !.I will wait untill your book comes out

**** obviously your one of thes old school boys,

"dont take a shot over 100 yards and make sure you can hit a 6 inch circle"

*** its comical,I have never recomened BDS or BASC there all up there own back side

you obvioulsy that set in your ways you havnt dicovered what a modern firearm with a scope is capable of

stick to your 6 inch kill zone my freind and wait untill the best is stood broadside on a football pitch LOL

Edited July 18, 2009 by Ackley

[Harnser]

I think that Nick is intelligent enough to sort out the good advice and the gung-ho shoot it at any cost advice . I have allways said that the thrill is in the stalk and not in the kill . Any sportsman will get a great thrill at stalking a deer even if he dosent make the shot for one reason or another . To be able to stalk up to a deer without it knowing you are there is quite often enough for me .

I think to advise a newbee stalker to take a head shot on his first deer is down right stupid .

Ok , old school and do you know what , proud of it .

Harnser .

[Ackley]

I think that Nick is intelligent enough to sort out the good advice and the gung-ho shoot it at any cost advice . I have allways said that the thrill is in the stalk and not in the kill . Any sportsman will get a great thrill at stalking a deer even if he dosent make the shot for one reason or another . To be able to stalk up to a deer without it knowing you are there is quite often enough for me .

I think to advise a newbee stalker to take a head shot on his first deer is down right stupid .

Ok , old school and do you know what , proud of it .

Harnser .

 

good for you mate,Iam fortunate enough to do both.

you or the other guy is missing the point here,there is no right or wrong way of taking a shot,thats what annoys me about all the "good practice rubbish"

if you can take the shot safley,then do it,people read too much of "what your suspose to do" Iam surprized anything ever gets shot

obviously none of you have ever shot Sika in southern ireland ? they insist on head or neck shots,is that wrong ?

this guy obviously had a shot and was experienced enough to know he had the shot but didnt take it because of what hes read or been told

theres thrill in close range there is also a thrill in long range,

short or long you still need the conditions to be right,its nothing to do with being a "newbie stalker"

now if you have never shot a rifle before thats a different matter.

[scolopax]

Head and neck shots, can go wrong in a big way, a misplaced chest shot generally results in a dead deer, even if not recovered it will succumb relatively quickly to its wounds. Putting a bullet in a 6" cirlce centred on the front chest will kill any UK deer, 12" for the biiger species even more maybe, this comes down to mabe 2" or 3" kill zone for head neck shots. Great if you are an experienced, confident rifle shot but for a novice, including myself, buck fever can take over when you least expect it. A bad head or neck shot can leave an animal to die days later as they are very hard to track.

 

Knocking a deer over to a head shot then seeing it kick itself to its feet before running off with its lower jaw banging against is neck tends to give you a rather sick feeling. This happened to me and the beast was recovered but only due to the fact I was able to follow the trail through snow, there was no blood. Another guy I stalk with has head shot two deer when out with me which then stood up again with terrible wounds but still 100% alive, in each case both animals were dazed and second killing shots taken.

[Ackley]

Head and neck shots, can go wrong in a big way, a misplaced chest shot generally results in a dead deer, even if not recovered it will succumb relatively quickly to its wounds. Putting a bullet in a 6" cirlce centred on the front chest will kill any UK deer, 12" for the biiger species even more maybe, this comes down to mabe 2" or 3" kill zone for head neck shots. Great if you are an experienced, confident rifle shot but for a novice, including myself, buck fever can take over when you least expect it. A bad head or neck shot can leave an animal to die days later as they are very hard to track.

 

Knocking a deer over to a head shot then seeing it kick itself to its feet before running off with its lower jaw banging against is neck tends to give you a rather sick feeling. This happened to me and the beast was recovered but only due to the fact I was able to follow the trail through snow, there was no blood. Another guy I stalk with has head shot two deer when out with me which then stood up again with terrible wounds but still 100% alive, in each case both animals were dazed and second killing shots taken.

 

yes a head or neck shot can go wrong,but you fail to mention so can a "heart and lung shot"

where ever you put the bullet there is always the chance of loosing a beast,

I have seen heart and lung shots go a great distance and would never be found unless you have a dog I have also seen this shot drop a beast on the spot,just like a head or neck shot

as I ave said there is no "right or wrong shot" which is constanty rammed down out throats which can confuse people who have the abilty to place a good shot but think they are doing wrong doing what comes naturally given the correct conditions

there is onlu 1 rule in my book which we all should do automatically

thats "back stops where the bullet is going to end up"

[Gonk]

Not taking the shot CANNOT be a bad decision. As I previously said Nick was there, he wasn't happy with it, right choice. Taking it and making a balls of it would have been a disaster and maybe spoilt future trips for him and left the animal to a slow horrific death. Where to target the shot I cannot comment on as I don't have the experience too but if someone doesn't feel comfortable with the shot then it shouldn't be taken.

[Ackley]

Not taking the shot CANNOT be a bad decision. As I previously said Nick was there, he wasn't happy with it, right choice. Taking it and making a balls of it would have been a disaster and maybe spoilt future trips for him and left the animal to a slow horrific death. Where to target the shot I cannot comment on as I don't have the experience too but if someone doesn't feel comfortable with the shot then it shouldn't be taken.

 

still not reading this correctly are we boys

the guy clearly said "HE COULD HAVE TAKEN A HEAD OR NECK SHOT"

BUT he didnt because he thought he had to take a heart and lung shot which ment he didnt get the prize

by saying "he could have taken a shot" is saying to me he was confident had a good rest and was happy

its no big deal really you do what you happy to do,but what the book says isnt "gospel" and every time you take a rifle in your hand and look down the scope you are the only one to make the decission,and not what your told to do in a book

thats my point,not that he didnt take the shot

what next BASC telling us how to shoot driven pheasent or a rabbit had to be stood on its rear leg before sqeezing the trigger

the only thing you need to do with what ever shot you take,is make sure its safe and make sure its dead

[Gonk]

The last bit is spot on mate!

What was influencing his decision only he knows but that's the point, it was his choice and the result wasn't an unhappy one so that's gotta be good???

[nipper]

Well Ackley,

Old school or not Your attitude Stinks !!

If you are old school, then you should know better ?

 

If you are not old school,then everything you are doing now is second hand.Because someone else has done it before you and probably much better !

 

Dream on !

[scolopax]

I see where Ackley is coming from and agree that there should be no hard and fast rules. But with most people stalking deer there is a fair degree of excitement associated with the process, and for those new to the game the cross hairs which normally hold smack on the centre of a target tend to do nice figure of eights when lined up on a deer for some reason Equally the bullet can end up three, four or more inches away from where you actually aimed when shooting a deer, which rarely happens when punching paper.

 

Simply put you have far more insurance with a chest shot over a head or neck shot.

[Beardo]

i didn't realise i'd start quite the controversy that i have!

 

i'm currently drunk and probably not in the best state to comment.

 

all i'll say at this point in time is - i wasn't happy to take that shot, and i stand by that decision.

 

i've shot plenty over the years, and i'm know when is right and when is wrong. that time was wrong for me.

[moses]

Some interesting points raised here obviously peoples opinions vary considerably.

 

I would say that Ackley has a point, head/neck shots have their place.

Anyone who's been stalking in Co Wicklow would know that, those boys want head/neck shots everytime. Their reasoning for this is that the deer is either dead or missed.

 

I personally would not say to an inexperienced stalker to take a head shot, the reason being that there are more than one type. The safest of which in my opinion would be the shot placed in the back of the head/top of the neck as you can only really kill the beast or miss copletely.

The front on head shot can be tricky and it's safest to aim for the very top of the head just above the eyes or shoot lower in the neck, the danger here being the round can strike the animal in the snout and injure it badly. Another potential hazzard with a front on head shot is that the round exits and damages the carcass even if the beast is killed cleanly so, the positioning of the animal needs to be considered.

The one with the least margin for error is the broadside head/neck shot here you could take the animals jaw off with the head shot or damage the oesophagus with a neck shot you really need to be able and confident of placing the bullet just behind the ear of the beast for a clean kill.

 

This is one of those things that people will always disagree on and will continue to do so as more and more game dealers are imposing fines for beasts not shot in the head or neck and some refusing the carcass altogether.

 

ATB

Moses

[Ackley]

Well Ackley,

Old school or not Your attitude Stinks !!

If you are old school, then you should know better ?

 

If you are not old school,then everything you are doing now is second hand.Because someone else has done it before you and probably much better !

 

Dream on !

"old school" definatly not,shooting a long time ,yes

I understand modern ballistics and a modern firearm hence I know what bits capable of,Iam quite happy taking a 500 yards shot as Iam at 50 yards,its all to do with conditions,no one is going to tell me other wise,especially BASC or the BDS

there is no right or wrong way,its down to what YOU are capable of

so my attitued does not "stink" just because YOU dont agree.

the world id moving on rifles are getting better bullerts are getting better scopes are getting better,people realise you can shoot more than 100 yards and get a 1/4 group,and thens theres you with your head in the sand

no offence ment by the way but you should take your blinkers off

[Ackley]

i didn't realise i'd start quite the controversy that i have!

 

i'm currently drunk and probably not in the best state to comment.

 

all i'll say at this point in time is - i wasn't happy to take that shot, and i stand by that decision.

 

i've shot plenty over the years, and i'm know when is right and when is wrong. that time was wrong for me.

mate,as long as your happy thats all that matters,but you will learn to take the first shot that presents itself under the right conditions,instead of waiting for the text book broad side on shot

good luck

[nipper]

Your attitude has nothing to do with your ability.Countless people have the same ability.

Your attitude has nothing to do with modern equipment . Its freely available to anyone .

 

So the only difference between Ackley and the majority of others is the attitude !

 

One of these days in the future when you become "Old school" , you will have a better understanding what is going on while you look for a pile of sand to stick your head in . ?

[Ackley]

Your attitude has nothing to do with your ability.Countless people have the same ability.

Your attitude has nothing to do with modern equipment . Its freely available to anyone .

 

So the only difference between Ackley and the majority of others is the attitude !

 

One of these days in the future when you become "Old school" , you will have a better understanding what is going on while you look for a pile of sand to stick your head in . ?

 

your the one with the attitude pal as you wont accept Iam right "there is no right or wrong shot only different situations and conditions"

now matey your the one who should "remove" your head from the sand,I will never become "old school" as I move with the times instead of the past which you are obviously stuck in and wont accept

[Ozzy Fudd]

still not got my first yet - could have taken a head/neck shot on a young buck the other early evening, but would rather do it by the book. grass was too tall to see the body clearly

 

good on you nick, no point taking a shot if youre not happy with it, too many guys i know would have said **** it and pulled the trigger anyway

[Harnser]

your the one with the attitude pal as you wont accept Iam right "there is no right or wrong shot only different situations and conditions"

now matey your the one who should "remove" your head from the sand,I will never become "old school" as I move with the times instead of the past which you are obviously stuck in and wont accept

GERONIMO .

Harnser .

[Ackley]

GERONIMO .

Harnser .

 

is that German ?

[flytie]

I understand modern ballistics and a modern firearm hence I know what bits capable of, Iam quite happy taking a 500 yards shot as Iam at 50 yards,

 

A 500yd shot at deer Given ideal conditions, little or constant wind, and the right calibre it's feasable I know, but good general practise, I think not The RM Snipers are encouraged to get in 200m and they practise a lot.

 

And as for, "as I ave said there is no "right or wrong shot" I presume you use the "Texas Heart Shot" too?

 

ft

Edited July 19, 2009 by flytie

[Ackley]

A 500yd shot at deer Given ideal conditions, little or constant wind, and the right calibre it's feasable I know, but good general practise, I think not The RM Snipers are encouraged to get in 200m and they practise a lot.

 

And as for, "as I ave said there is no "right or wrong shot" I presume you use the "Texas Heart Shot" too?

 

ft

where did i say 500 yard at deer ??

i didnt,I said iam happy to take a 50 or a 500 yrd "shot"

but the furthest Ive shot deer was 465 yards so not far off oh and then another 2 at 365 the same day

But I cant shoot and have no idea B)

no mate never used the texas heart shot never really appealed to me,now you do what ever you like with your girl or boy freind

Edited July 19, 2009 by Ackley

[flytie]

where did i say 500 yard at deer ??

i didnt,I said iam happy to take a 50 or a 500 yrd "shot"

but the furthest Ive shot deer was 465 yards so not far off oh and then another 2 at 365 the same day

But I cant shoot and have no idea

no mate never used the texas heart shot never really appealed to me,now you do what ever you like with your girl or boy freind B)

 

where did i say 500 yard at deer ??

i didnt,I said iam happy to take a 50 or a 500 yrd "shot", Were we not talking of shooting deer?

 

no mate never used the texas heart shot never really appealed to me,. I am glad you agree there is a "wrong shot" to take at deer, no matter what you have already stated. It's nice to see that you aren't the bigot you first appeared to be. And as for people from the BASC/BDS not being able to shoot, don't make me laugh so much please, it hurts. Have a look at Steve Bowers site and see the groups he can shoot alongside the gorgeous rifles he builds. Generalisations like that are daft and make me doubt your state of mind. You come across like a walt

 

ft

[Ackley]

where did i say 500 yard at deer ??

i didnt,I said iam happy to take a 50 or a 500 yrd "shot", Were we not talking of shooting deer?

 

no mate never used the texas heart shot never really appealed to me,. I am glad you agree there is a "wrong shot" to take at deer, no matter what you have already stated. It's nice to see that you aren't the bigot you first appeared to be. And as for people from the BASC/BDS not being able to shoot, don't make me laugh so much please, it hurts. Have a look at Steve Bowers site and see the groups he can shoot alongside the gorgeous rifles he builds. Generalisations like that are daft and make me doubt your state of mind. You come across like a walt

 

ft

again why mention Mr Bowers ?? or are you name dropping,whats he got to do with BASC code of shooting

again you havnt read or understood what Iam on about,

"taking a shot by the book"

what is this susspose to mean ?? just because BASC or BDS say so,does this mean we cant do anything else

these people who make these statements are usually the ones who cant shoot or have never "tried" anything different

the texas heart shot isnt the wrong shot" if you hunt abroad" also I clearly siad "I have never used it as it dosent appeal to me"

so again theres no right or wrong shot

in fact i think or Iam sure have been told the texas heart shot is a reconized shot in this country.

hey ho matters not

Edited July 19, 2009 by Ackley

[Stealth Stalker]

I feel as if I should put my view of proceedings across here as I was the one standing less than 4 feet away from Nick calling in the muntie the other evening. I never even saw the beast! & Nick assures me it was there not 20 yards away for less than 3 seconds.

 

Nick reacted the same way I would have & I expect many others on here would as well, he said he "could have shot his first Muntjac" maybe he should re phrase that & say the oppertunity was there for him to shoot his first but he wasn't comfortable with the shot?

 

I have shot with Nick quite a bit now & I can say he is a first class shot 99% of the time when he pulls the trigger whatever it is he's shooting at leaves this earth none the wiser .

 

As I'm sure anyone who has shot Muntjac before will agree they appear as if by magic then are gone in a blink of an eye especially now with the cover up.

 

We both finished the evening without any venison, but both thoroughly enjoying the stalk Its not always about killing something.

 

SS