Furious at work!

[Guest]

"My point exactly, its only one step closer to subjugating the shooting crowd further, and will bring no peace and only cause harm to the shooting community.. of course they'd make up statistics saying 'Violent crime has been at an all time low since the banning of Crossbows' but just one step closer to section five'ing everything with a trigger, much to everyone's approval (the non-shooters, that is)."

 

Not just non-shooters. It seems there are some shooters here which would like a lot of things banned. Their actions are more in the line of what anti-gun activists wouold say. Who are they kidding?

[Shuck.]

So, in your opinion ANYONE should be able to own any type of firearm??

 

Are you mad?

 

Doesn't America have less gun crime then the UK on a scaled basis?

I think we'd be better off with a system like theirs.

 

Obviously take out the part where you give Uzi's to toddlers

[Shuck.]

Not just non-shooters. It seems there are some shooters here which would like a lot of things banned. Their actions are more in the line of what anti-gun activists wouold say. Who are they kidding?

 

 

"First they came for the pistols, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a pistol-shooter. Then they came for the airguns, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t an airgunner. Then they came for the rifles, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn't a rifle-shooter. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me."

Edited August 24, 2009 by Shuck.

[the last engineer]

"First they came for the pistols, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a pistol-shooter. Then they came for the airguns, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t an airgunner. Then they came for the rifles, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn't a rifle-shooter. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me."

 

a wise quote my friend, stand and be counted.

 

and you dont want the licencing laws of the US, you have enough to worry over now i think.

 

Martin.

[poontang]

Not exactly every tipe of firearm just what is allowed to be owned in America. Why is this mad?

 

Can you expand on what type of guns you would like to see here without any need for a license? What do Americans have that you're so desperate to own?

[Guest]

OK some statistics fomr the website I have just provided...

 

"Fact: Ironically,firearm use in crimes has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned.46"

 

46 Weapons sell for just £50 as suspects and victims grow ever younger, The Times, August 24, 2007.

 

"Fact: 67% of those with an opinion believe that “As a result of gun and knife crime, the area I live in is not as safe as it was five years ago 47"

 

47 YouGov survey of 2,156 residents in Sept 2007.

 

"Fact: Street robberies soared 28% in 2001. Violent crime was up 11%, murders up 4%, and rapes are up 14%.48"

 

48 British Home Office, reported by BBC news, July 12, 2002.

 

"Fact: This trend continues in 2004 with a 10% increase in street crime, 8% increase in

muggings, and a 22% increase in robberies.

Fact: In 1919, before they had any gun control, the U.K. had a homicide rate that was 8% of the U.S. rate. By 1986, and after enacting significant gun control, the rate was 9% –

practically unchanged.49"

 

49 Targeting Guns, Gary Kleck, Aldine Transaction, 1997, at 359.

 

"Fact: “... [There is] nothing in the statistics for England and Wales to suggest that either the stricter controls on handguns prior to 1997 or the ban imposed since have controlled access to such firearms by criminals.”50"

 

50 Minutes of Evidence, Colin Greenwood, Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs, January 29,

2003.

 

"Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there.51 To make matters worse,

British law enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely lower crime figures, in part to preserve tourism.52"

 

51 Fear in Britain, Gallant, Hills, Kopel, Independence Institute, July 18, 2000.

52 Crime Figures a Sham, Say Police, Daily Telegraph, April 1, 1996.

 

"Fact: Handgun homicides in England and Wales reached an all-time high in 2000, years after a virtual ban on private handgun ownership. More than 3,000 crimes involving handguns were recorded in 1999-2000, including the 42 homicides, 310 cases of attempted murder, 2,561 robberies and 204 burglaries.54"

 

54 42 killed by handguns last year, The Times, January 10, 2001, reporting on statistics supplied by the

British Home Office

 

"Fact: Handguns were used in 3,685 offenses in 2000 compared with 2,648 in 1997, an

increase of 40%.55 It is interesting to

note:

• Of the 20 areas with the lowest

number of legal firearms, 10 had

an above average level of “gun

crime.”

• Of the 20 areas with the highest

levels of legal guns, only 2 had armed crime levels above the average.

 

Fact: Between 1997 and 1999, there were 429 murders in London, the highest two-year

figure for more than 10 years – nearly two-thirds of those involved firearms – in a

country that has virtually banned private firearm ownership.56"

 

56 Ibid.

 

"Fact: Over the last century, the British crime rate was largely unchanged. In the late nineteenth century, the per capita homicide rate in Britain was between 1.0 and 1.5 per

100,000.57 In the late twentieth century, after a near ban on gun ownership, the homicide rate is around 1.4.58 This shows that the homicide rate does not vary with either the level of gun control or gun availability."

 

57 Crime and Society in England 1750-1900, Clive Emsley, 1987, at 36.

58 Where Kids and Guns Do Mix, Stephen P. Halbrook, Wall Street Journal, June 199

 

"Fact: The U.K. has strict gun control and a rising homicide rate of 1.4 per 100,000. Switzerland has the highest per capita firearm ownership rate on the planet (all males age

20 to 42 are required to keep rifles or pistols at home) has a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000. And to date, there has never been a schoolyard massacre in Switzerland.59"

 

59 Ibid.

 

"Fact: “… the scale of gun crime in the capital [London] has forced senior officers to set

up a specialist unit to deal with ... shootings.”60"

 

60 Associated News Media, April 30, 2001.

[Shuck.]

Can you expand on what type of guns you would like to see here without any need for a license? What do Americans have that you're so desperate to own?

 

I'm pretty sure the US has some licensing laws

Although I know that a Shotgun is an unlicensed weapon over there, I talked to an American guy once - explained the firearm situation, he just laughed.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Shuck.

[Guest]

"Can you expand on what type of guns you would like to see here without any need for a license? What do Americans have that you're so desperate to own?"

 

Well if it was LEGAL I would like to own a semi-automatic AR-15 and a handgun, probably a Walther or Beretta 1911.

[Shuck.]

Well if it was LEGAL I would like to own a semi-automatic AR-15

 

I would like to get one if I get an FAC; Semi .220, mind

 

If I lived over the pond, however I wouldn't mind a nice gold P99

 

 

P.S. Whats a Beretta 1911 Koz?

Edited August 24, 2009 by Shuck.

[the last engineer]

"Can you expand on what type of guns you would like to see here without any need for a license? What do Americans have that you're so desperate to own?"

 

Well if it was LEGAL I would like to own a semi-automatic AR-15 and a handgun, probably a Walther or Beretta 1911.

 

if your going to be a bear son, be a grizzly, get a 50cal Dessert Eagle or 50 S+W

 

you know you want it

[Shuck.]

if your going to be a bear son, be a grizzly, get a 50cal Dessert Eagle or 50 S+W

 

you know you want it

 

A .44 SW would do me fine

A .50 hand-cannon would probably play the fabled brown note for me

[Guest]

I think I would be scared of a Desert Eagle to start with, until I learned how to properly use it. I would be a complete newbie so best to start with something small.

[Shuck.]

I think I would be scared of a Desert Eagle to start with, until I learned how to properly use it. I would be a complete newbie so best to start with something small.

 

My mate in the USA's got a Derringer if you ever visit

[Ozzy Fudd]

My mate in the USA's got a Derringer if you ever visit

 

ive got a rubber band if youre stuck...

[Cranfield]

This thread is so derailed that it is difficult to clean it up, so we will close it.

 

If anyone wants to argue about gun licensing, do so in the General Shooting Matters, if harfrodwmj wants to post an update sometime on the outcome of the original point of this thread, he can start a new thread.