garyb Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Gent's... I've started to run into a bit of bother with my handloads. Some, but not all - although most - Seem to get stuck in the rifle and either the bolt is hard to shut, or impossible to open. Now before someone mentions pressure I should explain that these symptoms are seen on UNFIRED cases... cases that we're difficult to chamber usually extract just fine once fired. Brass is Norma (fired 4-5 times now) I did some measurements last night and I notice that the Case O.A.L, of the cases I sampled is around 1.740 - 1.745 I'm running with -25 thou off the lands with an O.A.L of 1.875 as usual. Case trimmer required perhaps? GB Edited August 26, 2009 by garyb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeymagic1969 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Case trimmer required perhaps? Simple answer to this one - YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostWomble Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 It sounds like you are only resizing the neck and not the whole case. Check your dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Correct.. I should mention that I only neck size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeymagic1969 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 You should still be checking the length and trimming them Gary - they normally stretch the most on the first couple of shots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostWomble Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Correct.. I should mention that I only neck size. Well, there you have it. Length certainly should be taken into consideration but the cases are jamming in the chamber because they are just too fat. Get a case sizing die and all will be well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Could well be the issue womble.. I do have a FL die in my kit... although I've only used it for brass given to me by others. I read on google that .223 "Trimmed Case Length should be- 1.750" - So.. I seem ok there? So say that I FL size the remaining brass, can I not expect my POI and zero to be different to that of the neck sized fire-formed stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostWomble Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 So say that I FL size the remaining brass, can I not expect my POI and zero to be different to that of the neck sized fire-formed stuff? Could be, but at least you can get them out of the gun without a fight and unless you are target shooting the accuracy should net be that badly affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Is there a "good practice" method in regards to how much neck sizing you should do until a FL size is required. My understanding was that you could get away with neck sizing as many times as the brass would last - providing the rounds we're only fired in the rifle they had been formed for.... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeymagic1969 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Most i have talked to regarding say that you should FL resize after 5 Neck resizes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 depends on the gun and the load. A second hand CZ 527 in 221 FB I picked up on here was only neck sized for a good while (probably 8-10 loadings on the rounds). Those rounds are sticking when I try to eject a live round. Once FL sized they are fine. To my mind, I'll FL size everything, even if it means reduced brass life and slightly worse accuracy (and there is no guarantee on that one). In a hunting rifle in the field I'll never realize the accuracy difference. And for all the more I'm shooting 3-5 loadings of FL sized brass is plenty. The tradeoff is 100% reliability in the field. Thanks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Seems like a FL size is the way to go then.... http://blog.sinclairintl.com/2009/02/19/se...gth-sizing-die/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruxie hill Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 sorry to jump in but i work a body die to push the body back every firing i dont like full lenth dies i believe they weaken the case what i do is neck size/decap- bodybump- tumble- case trim (if needed) then prep works well for me and as you know consistancy is the key to reloading all the best bruxie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miffy Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) i dont like full lenth dies i believe they weaken the case works well for me and as you know consistancy is the key to reloading Not strictly true as i always full length resize and i have never had any issues with weak cases, I use a .22/250 loaded slightly hot :look: and i have had more than 10 reloads from alot of the cases. The problem that i find with neck sizing is that you need to keep a check on how many times each case has been reloaded, then full length size every 5ish times of neck sizing. Even then you will get a tight case that has only been neck sized perhaps 3 times instead of the usual 5 times, so to get round this you need to chamber the neck sized cases every time they have been resized to ensure they chamber correctly. If you full length resize everytime and check your cases properly then there shouldn't be a problem. I have yet to struggle to get any sort of decent accuracy when full length resizing in any rifle or caliber that i have loaded. Edited August 26, 2009 by miffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted August 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Set your full length die to just bump the shoulder slightly, you dont need to sammi spec the case every time, doing that is what overworks your brass and leads to head seperation over time, especially if you have generous headspace in your chamber. I only bump the shoulders when i notice the bolt starting to get a little snug when chambering, otherwise i just continue to neck size. Like this? Bottleneck Here we want to re-size the case just enough so that it chambers easily in your firearm. If you just blindly resize it as much as the die will do, you risk pushing the shoulder back too far. This will lead to premature case head separation (thinning and separation of the brass down by the case head). In other words, you'll wear your brass out too fast, and risk 'splits' in your brass during firing. 1. Place the shell-holder in your press. 2. Place a lubed case in the shell-holder, and raise it on the ram. 3. Screw the die into your press until you feel slight resistance. 4. Back the case out, and lower the die 1/4 turn. 5. Run the lubed case through the die. 6. Wipe off the lube, and see if the case chambers easily in your firearm. 7. If it did not chamber easily, turn the die down 1/4 turn, and go back to step 5. 8. If so, lock the die down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Hi, Case stretching occurs when the neck sizing button is pulled back through the case. Full length resize, trim brass to correct length the buy a lee collet die and you should get many reloads before full length sizing is needed. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Had a play yesterday... FL sized the brass = problem gone Cheers all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 One more thing... I had made up 15 or so rounds.. that had the stuck case problem. These have now been taken apart using a kinetic hammer (cheers SS) Would there be an issue in running this brass (complete with primer) through my FL die, with the decapping pin taken out? I wouldnt want to use any lube... As a test I tried it on one case, and it sized it fine without any sticking in the die! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeymagic1969 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Be careful - one stuck case and it maybe goodnight to your die-even if you dont ruin the die, it takes ages to get one out ( believe me i know ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Back to the tables young Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Be careful - one stuck case and it maybe goodnight to your die-even if you dont ruin the die, it takes ages to get one out ( believe me i know ) Hmm i'm worried about putting grease into the rifle though..... I got keen - I've done 10 without a problem thus far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Back to the tables young Gary A big oak table perhaps? Sod the gym membership - You'll get fit lifting that thing in and out of the disco each time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeymagic1969 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Good luck with em - last one i got stuck, it took a lot of banging, drilling and filing to get the ****** out Edited September 1, 2009 by monkeymagic1969 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v-max Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 One more thing... I had made up 15 or so rounds.. that had the stuck case problem. These have now been taken apart using a kinetic hammer (cheers SS) Would there be an issue in running this brass (complete with primer) through my FL die, with the decapping pin taken out? I wouldnt want to use any lube... As a test I tried it on one case, and it sized it fine without any sticking in the die! You should be carefull as the decapping rod also expands/flares the case mouth on your down stroke back to .002 under your cal size ie in .224 it will measure .222 so be carefull not to close the mouth to much as a bullet is a poor expander & i wouldent advise it. For the cost of primers & your case the most valuable component of reloading i would just FL-size the case trim & start over again with primer etc. I neck size but any sticky cases are put to 1 side & i FL-size them or do it 1 in 5 or 6 times of use i FL-size the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie g Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) should fl it like what has been said above. but set it so you knock the shoulder back. your troubles will be sorted then Edited September 1, 2009 by jamie g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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