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WWII GERMAN HELMET

Coney Basher

By Coney Basher,
in Other Sales

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starlight32

starlight32

Posted
Posted (edited)
Any re-enactors out there?

 

I have a repro (I think) WWII standard issue German helmet for sale. It is in very good condition (see photos). £35 plus postage of your choice.

 

C-B

 

GermanHelmetp1.jpg

 

GermanHelmetp2.jpg

 

Could tell me the exact colour, is it off shade grey or green? (Grey only issued to rearguard units) I cannot tell from the picture.

 

Also, I need to know which copy of year of issue it is.There are a few ways to do this, but a good start is to look at the liner (Assuming the liner is original). Under the liner you will clearly see the stitching that holds the crown to the spider, they will be darker from all the rest. Count them and let me know how many there is.

 

If there is 40 then there it is Pre 1936 pattern, 50 then it is a 1942 issue.

 

It all has relevance, but there is alot more to it than that

Edited by starlight32
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starlight32

starlight32

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Is it the resolution of my monitor or is that more blue than grey? If so that could be collectable.

 

I am fairly certain that it's a 1944 pattern copy and due to the larger skirt at the back which was only issued to Flak units

 

No not quite correct- The 44 pattern was finished black, issued with a drab olive helmet cover to combat units and without to flak personel.

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BSA-airgunner

BSA-airgunner

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Could tell me the exact colour, is it off shade grey or green? (Grey only issued to rearguard units) I cannot tell from the picture.

 

Also, I need to know which copy of year of issue it is. Under the liner you will clearly see the stitching that holds the crown to the spider, they will be darker from all the rest. Count them and let me know how many there is.

 

If there is 40 then there it is 1936 pattern, 50 then it is a 1942 issue.

 

It all has relevance

 

 

sounds like you sure know your helmets

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Coney Basher

Coney Basher

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Hi Starlight,

 

The colour is more green than grey. The helmet has two numbers stamped inside. The one at the back of the skirt is 1803 and on the left hand of the skirt is ET64. Also, '38' is stamped on all three of the brass thingys holding the band to the helmet. I can't see any dark stitching holding the 4 flaps to the band, only the same colour thread that you can see on the band itself.

 

Are you saying that this could be a collectable original? If so, I must alter the asking price. :unsure:

 

Regards

 

C-B

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Bagsy

Bagsy

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No not quite correct- The 44 pattern was finished black, issued with a drab olive helmet cover to combat units and without to flak personel.

 

I'm with Starlight, the 44 pattern was finished in black. Weren't the Flak units disbanded in 45? If so then 'good' condition originals will be really hard to find.

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starlight32

starlight32

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Posted (edited)
Hi Starlight,

 

The colour is more green than grey. The helmet has two numbers stamped inside. The one at the back of the skirt is 1803 and on the left hand of the skirt is ET64. Also, '38' is stamped on all three of the brass thingys holding the band to the helmet. I can't see any dark stitching holding the 4 flaps to the band, only the same colour thread that you can see on the band itself.

 

Are you saying that this could be a collectable original? If so, I must alter the asking price. :yes:

 

Regards

 

C-B

 

 

You have now placed a little more light on it, and for the moment let us assume it is a reproduction, although with the presence of production markings it is a good reproduction-Note at the moment I am committing to nothing. However If it is green and you can be sure it is the original colour and that it has not been field overpainted then it is then it is Pre 1936, what is known as a M1935 pattern. There was three basic pattern's -M1935,M1940, & M1942. The wehrmacht changed the dye pigment in standard issue uniform standardized production technique which resulted in the colour change...It is also tied in with the issue from 39 onwards of combat camouflage smocks-These were sparse though and only given to Großdeutschland & Panzergrenadier units because they were given the best kit. Most manufacture of field issue was completely transfered to Germany and Austria by 1943 onwards when all the factories in Eastern Europe were overrun by the Russian Army, this resulted in the earlier and the release of the M1942.

 

The two markings on the skirt is standard for a an original, ET64 being the factory code for sizing (Total of 6 sizes) where it was made under licence to the Reich War Ministry (Reichkriegsministerium) and 1803 being the inspectors stamp who inspected a batch from the production line. It has to be noted only 25% of all German production helmets had any markings at all, reason being they were not all inspected, Just a selection from a production batch. This is makes them more collectable.

 

Now then I can only say that there is a great deal of excellent copies of German field issue in existence, Forgers even go as far to obtain raw materials which have been found in Germany that the actual Helmets were made from prior to be being made -so this fools experts even more. However it is not uncommon to find an individual to has in his possession a geniune article, and he often comes by it in unususal circumstances.

 

There was a total of 22 million WWII helmets produced, yet their existence in probably only countrywide in the thousands.

One more question, Does it have the 'Heer' decal (swastika and eagle) on the other side?

So without saying and I would have to look at it, if you are in possession of a genuine M1935 issue Helmet, with most original colour intact, It would be worth at auction at todays prices anywhere from £500-£1200 pounds.

 

I have kept this public as you can guess I dabble in this field and wish to appear as honest as possible, as there are many unscrupulous dealers and collectors who would be only to happy to relieve you of it for £35 + Postage........

 

Regards

Edited by starlight32
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starlight32

starlight32

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Posted
I'm with Starlight, the 44 pattern was finished in black. Weren't the Flak units disbanded in 45? If so then 'good' condition originals will be really hard to find.

 

Yes all units were disbanded at the of hostilites, Good condition originals are extremely rare.

 

I was at an auction last year in France where a whole stash of German field uniforms and associated items was found in Unissued state in a underground storage bunker on the French/Belguim border,

 

The entire auction sale fetched in indiviual lots over 4 million Euro's.

 

Its big business, believe me, but big business always attracts dishonesty does it not?

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starlight32

starlight32

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I think it may be the same one my rabbit is wearing...

 

No that is actually an 'M1918' pattern issue from the first world war, although the ears were not standard issue :yes:

 

There are more of them around than WWII made ones, mainly because German WWI German soldiers returning home from the front after the war returned with all their equipment where it was to be returned to military depots, and in reality most of it went home with them.

Edited by starlight32
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ME

ME

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Starlight, did you see that guy on Mastermind a while back that had German Militaria as a specialist subject - it wasnt you was it ? :yes:

 

EDIT: Sorry to derail the thread there chaps

Edited by ME
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starlight32

starlight32

Posted
Posted (edited)
Starlight, did you see that guy on Mastermind a while back that had German Militaria as a specialist subject - it wasnt you was it ? :yes:

 

EDIT: Sorry to derail the thread there chaps

 

One of the others has spilled the beans haven't they!!-now I am going to be known as a Nerd on here forever!!!

 

It was'nt militaria actually, The subject was 'German Army group centre Eastern Front 1941-1945'

 

I came second.

 

Regards

Edited by starlight32
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starlight32

starlight32

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I am interested, how do you want payment mate ?

 

Do you know what size it is ? Perhaps Starlight can advise on the sizing ?

 

There were a total of six sizes made, ranging from 60cm (ET60) through to 70cm (ET70, these were custom made though and extremely rare in original existence)

 

The helmet listed is a medium.

 

Are you looking to buy this to actually wear?

 

I know you are not a re-enactor, and the use of German helmets as a motorcycle headgear is now prohibited.

 

I will also say, I once picked up a very rare WWII original off a guy who was a bit of a player in a Hells Angel chapter, you ought to have seen the look on his face when I told him it was worth a £2000.00+++++

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Coney Basher

Coney Basher

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Wow, I do seem to have started an interesting thread, maybe not one for 'other sales' but what the hell.

 

Anyway Starlight, I really do appreciate your honesty and your expert knowledge. Needless to say, I think I should get the helmet looked at and valued properly before offering it for sale. Would you be interested in looking at it for me? Suffolk is not far away from me so I could run it down at a date/time convenient to you. It would be good to meet you anyway - even if the helmet is a copy.

 

If you are agreeable to this, please could you PM me and I will send you my contact details.

 

Regards

 

C-B

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