dadioles

It shouldn't. I can see how, in some circumstances, it may affect barrel harmonics but I have never had a problem. Take the mod off, put it back on again, no change in poi.

coincidence?

I think this is a topic where some shooters use the term 'zero' rather loosely. Probably as loose as some of the distances quoted. 'Accurate' and 'silent' are two other words with such a wide range of undisclosed values as to be meaningless. To my way of thinking.... First choose whatever ammunition gives you the tightest group at the furthest typical distance that you are likely to shoot. Then, having decided on the distance you want to use as your 'zero' (say.... 100 yards or whatever - NOT the near 'zero' but the distant one) spend some time finely adjusting your scope so that your bullets hit where intended. A few shots at intermediate distance will confirm the trajectory.

At 40 yards you should almost get every bullet in the same hole. You really do need to zero properly at the longer of your two 'zero' points. In my view, getting that initial scope setup as accurate as possible is really important. Errors increase considerably with distance.

There is hunting and there is hunting.... I am not very young and not very fit. I am out shooting every week but ALL of my shooting (mostly rabbits) is sniper style and I have all the time in the world to settle down, range find, line up the shot and head shoot the quarry. I practice on paper targets and have charted the trajectory. Wind is not a major issue for me as I do not shoot in a gale. I am very accurate. If I cannot shoot a group of 5 within a 1" circle, that is not good enough for live quarry. We all have different shooting environments, ability and techniques. I could not hold a gun steady enough to shoot from the shoulder with sufficient accuracy to humanely head shoot a rabbit at more than about 20 yards. I can, however, do that every time with my hmr off a bipod at 120 yards. Catweazle #42 was spot on.

Did you try some different makes of ammo or just what you were given?

What does 'good results' mean? They went Bang! Details?....... Distance - Group size - Stick or Bipod And the next person who says their .22lr is almost silent has obviously spent too much time having their hearing damaged in a disco.

With a bit of practice and especially if using a bipod, you should be able to get every shot into a one inch circle at 80 yards. When you take delivery of your new gun, just get 1 box each of several different makes of ammunition and see what gives the tightest groups. Just make sure that you spend some time shooting paper targets and learning your trajectory before attempting rabbits.

Buy a box of each of the .22lr subsonic expanding ammunition types that your local dealer has in stock and is likely to stock in the future. Spend a few hours in the field shooting targets at 50 or 60 yards and see which ammo chambers smoothly and reliably and above all gives you the tightest groups. Now stick to that one and don't change. Next, zero your rifle using that chosen ammunition and work out the drop at different ranges from, say, 20 yards to 80 yards. Your maximum range for bunny shooting is whatever distance you can place EVERY shot with the area of a 2p coin.

When blue tips came out they were sold cheaper than red tips. There were many conspiracy theories. Frankly, I found the blue tips to be identical to red tips apart from the colour. I emailed Hornady at the time (2011) and was given a very simple explanation.... They had stocks of blue polymer "... for FN for the 5.7X28 round ..." and were short on stock of the red. All the bullet heads were manufactured identically but blue ones were sold at a reduced price. As simple as that. It is very easy to blame the ammunition... Every week I read in these forums about people who never clean their rifles 'until the accuracy goes off' and then it is a quick run through with a bore snake.

Just say no and ask for your money back. Hopefully they will give it to you quickly otherwise you are in for a whole load of hassle.

Ok, just weighed 10 with cracks and 10 without cracks. I used a laboratory analytical chain balance (just happen to have one around ) There was no meaningful difference between the two. They were VERY consistent - all credit to Hornady. Averaged over 10 bullets: Cracked cases = 40.351 grains Normal cases = 40.402 grains I am still at a loss to understand why bullets with cracked cases fly faster than those that do not. The only thing I can think of is that the bullet head is gripped less tightly when the neck is cracked and is therefore released more easily. Another possibility is that cracked cases are harder and flex less, thereby accepting greater case pressure. Hold on a minute..... another pig just flew by.... I think it was clutching a straw...... Must get a life......

All of my cracked bullets show the split from the neck (where the bullet is inserted into the brass) to the shoulder. In this photo you can see the crack in the neck of the new ammunition. It does extend to the shoulder but is too fine to see in the photo. After firing, the crack has opened up significantly, as you would expect, and more clearly defined by powder burn. The main outside body of the cartridge is 'dirtier' but whether this is discolouration caused by the heat of combustion or the smear of smoke deposit I am not sure. The bullets fire perfectly well and I do not have any issue with them, cracked or not cracked. Apparently several million of these bullets are sold in the UK alone each year, the failure rate is tiny. I cannot help thinking that in the majority of cases where users have problems, it is down to the user. Was the ammunition allowed to get damp? Is the rifle barrel, chamber and action cleaned regularly and properly?

Following on from comments elsewhere about Hornady 17gr HMR V-Max variance...... My experience is that there is little variation between bullets and batches or tip colour or whether the case neck is cracked or not. I just tried a quick test at 50 yards with the F1 Chrony placed about 1 foot in front of the muzzle. All bullets landed easily within the area of a pound coin, no fliers. The dense stack of magazines that I used as a back stop was penetrated to a depth of five inches. Bullets were fragmented and magazines turned to dust around the bullet holes, quite devastating. Rifle was Anschutz 1517 with 14" barrel and DM80 moderator. Normal bullets bright red tips: (fps) 2469 2433 2459 2442 2412 2459 2445 ave - 2446 Normal bullets dark red/brown tips: 2533 2378 2434 2467 ave - 2453 Bullets with cracked necks prior to firing: 2573 2587 2671 2606 2691 2609 2459 ave - 2599 The fact that they all shot the same is what matters. It is interesting that the ones with cracked cases almost all flew faster (average 140fps faster - nearly 6% ) . The difference in impact point would probably show better at 100 yards, a job for another day. I have another 30 or so with cracked necks that I can test. All my bullets are stored in warm dry conditions. I expected the bullets with cracked necks to fly slower, not quicker. Maybe other shooters have damp ammunition. One way of looking at it is that bullets with cracked necks are a premium product - they fly faster!!

The results you describe here, fister, are at complete variance to my own experience which is much the same as that described by Dekers (#45). When blue tips came out, they were sold cheaper than the normal red tips. I was told by Hornady that, basically, they had a lot of blue material to use up and dropped the price to shift it, no conspiracy theory, nothing sinister, it is all quite mundane really. The fact that different 'brands' of ammunition use different coloured tips is purely a marketing exercise, nothing technical. In response to another post about cracked hmr cases I said I would carry out a test and put the results up. I will try and get something posted today.

I think it is fair to say that Hornady 17gr v-max for the HMR is some of the most reliable and consistent rimfire ammunition available. Compared to the .22lr the consistency of hmr ammunition is remarkable. Variations in the shade of red tip colour are purely cosmetic and of no consequence. Bob Palmer at Hornady told me back in 2011.... "The red color of the tip can vary a little because of the color die in the machine. It can vary a little on the mix. You also see some bullets that are brown or darker. That is caused by the injection mold being too hot. I think we make all of the tipped 17 cal bullets for the HMR" You need to put things into perspective. Huge numbers of cheap mass produced hmr rounds are fired every day. There are a few failures. The failure may be the result of poor (damp) storage, faulty ammunition, shooter error or a gun problem. The percentage failure rate is tiny. Some of you like the HMR and some don't. It fills a niche and is an excellent calibre for certain tasks so lets get real here and stop expecting free miracles.

Yes, it makes sure everything lines up nicely when you insert the rod and jag. Particularly useful on small calibre such as .22 and .17

Perhaps a bit harsh.... I do agree that someone with first hand knowledge of barrel swapping has greater credibility than someone like myself that does not. My comment: "Can anyone make a good case for wanting to switch barrels (.22lr & .17hmr) rather than have two rifles." Seems entirely reasonable. I cannot think of a reason but am open to be persuaded. My preference is to have multiple guns, each with bipod, scope, moderator and slip. Ready to be picked up and used, already zeroed and available for work. Of course that would not suit everyone.

Can anyone make a good case for wanting to switch barrels (.22lr & .17hmr) rather than have two rifles. All I can see is expense and hassle. Sharing a scope or even a bipod between two guns is bad enough.

As per my other post - 40 yards is not far enough to show up any real differences. Good shooting is when you get groups like your RWS group but at 80 yards or further. I am old, fat and unfit. Certainly not a particularly good shot. Using SK Subs through my CZ with a bipod every bullet will fit within the area of a 2p coin (about 1 moa) without too much difficulty at 80 yards (3.4 inch drop).

40-50 yards is not far enough to show a difference in ammunition types. Sorry, you are deluding yourself . Try the same test, 5 shots of each bullet type at 75 yards . That will help sort out what suits your gun.

You did not say what distance you were shooting at but the RWS seemed to be significantly better than the others.

Others would disagree and some would even double these distances but accurately and humanely you will not go far wrong with these: Sub 12ft air rifle - around 35 yards .22lr - around 75 yards .17 hmr - around 125 yards I have erred on the cautious side and there are lots of variables, not least of all your skill. It gives you a rough idea though. Another way of looking at it is that shot placement with the air rifle is critical. There is not a lot of power to spare and you really do need to hit the rabbit in the brain. The .22lr is very hard hitting, like an air rifle pellet with serious oomph. With the .17hmr you are into high velocity, a different characteristic. The bullet travels so fast that it will fragment 'explosively' on impact and the effect is devastating. On rabbits for the pot it has to be head shots because of the damage caused. Practice on paper targets and do not shoot at live animals until EVERY shot you take at any distance is within the area of a 1p coin (air rifle) £ coin (.22lr) 2p coin (hmr).

Does that not solve the problem? If you do not each have your own licence perhaps that is the simplest solution.

Yes, as Whitebridges said. Try a polite letter to your local police force explaining the situation and making it clear that you are losing shooting opportunities because of these delays. If you have had your licence for a reasonable length of time and can show by your ammunition purchases and permissions that you are an active shooter you may be able to persuade them to open your ticket. There is no legal reason for them not to, it is rather more a matter of whim.