sterling

At the risk of taking a two year old thread off on a tangent, just out of curiosity; Do you wear hearing protection when using your suppressed 410? After a day in the woods with 25 eley extralong subs + 50 fourlongs through a hush, my ears feel like I've been to a very loud rock concert. I also had the chance to hear some 410 slugs through a hushpower today. I would say the slugs through the hushpower were on a par with a suppressed 308 firing supersonics. LOUD!

.

Well I spoke to saddlery and gun room. They wouldn't offer a concrete statement on the matter, presumably so as to avoid liability. I don't resent their reluctance; that's standard business and the staff remained friendly and helpful. However, the conversation could be summarised as; - Saddlery and gun room advise against the use of plastic wads in hushpower moderators, in favour of felt or fibre. - There is a perceived increased risk of damage or injury as a result of using plastic wads. - To date, there have been no reports of damage or injury as a result of using plastic wads in hushpower moderators. There it is, it's up to you to decide whether it's worth the risk to you. I would personally say that the risk is substantialy less with break-barrel guns where the bore can be easily checked after each shot. Pumps such as the mossberg are rather more difficult to check. Fibre wads are more expensive, but the .410 never was an economy option anyway...

Mick, I don't mean to question your experience for a second but for anybody with a hushpower reading this, I'd advise a quick call to saddlery & gunroom to clarify the wad situation. I've found plastic wad shrapnel in the new type 9" moderator. Could those pieces cause a bore obstruction? It seems possible to me. I'll stick to fibre wad for now or take the can off to shoot cheaper plastic wads when noise isn't an issue. I've tested a lot of carts through the hushpower (plastic and fibre), and the general consensus from the shooting position and from a distance is that subsonics don't make much difference for the added cost - supersonic crack seems very subtle in the .410. Eley extralong "subsonics" do hit with authority but I have frequently heard a suspicious crack and I'd like to run them over a chrono. Fourlongs were quietest but throw a fairly anemic 12.5g pattern. It's worth patterning the fourlongs to see just how sparse that pattern is! For what it's worth, I'll call saddlery & gunroom tomorrow and quote their response here.

You two are onto something with the .17HH. Another interesting little round I'd like to build a gun around is the .22TCM. I first saw this little zinger in a 1911 pistol - a 9x19 case necked to .22. Why? Because it's possible... Thanks dogone. I'm dual Canuck/Brit, so I'm pretty familiar with the ups and downs of Canadian firearms laws. The registry was proven to be the pointless black hole for tax payers' money that every gun owner knew it was. Next steps I'd like to see; sort out the PAL/RPAL nonsense, legalise suppressors, easier wilderness carry and armed home defence laws which don't favour the criminal. I'm still not decided on concealed carry in public yet.

I hear you Jonathan. I'm about to send my own thread into oblivion, but here goes... Public pressure isn't always enough - remember the Iraq anti-war protests? One million angry people descended on London (the largest political protest in London's history). The effect: nothing. Now in the USA, the fact that there are such overwhelming numbers of firearm owners and NRA supporters does definitely cause their government to take public opinion seriously. Their NRA is infinitely stronger than our BASC or NRA and actually manage to make a serious political impact. So much so that Obama will actually come out in support of gay marriage and lose the entire Christian vote before he takes on firearm owners! If it wasn't for English history and humour, I'd live overseas permanently where all my fun toys are. The laws are no less rediculous in other countries though - I can shoot a .308 on my land because it has a nice walnut stock. The 5.56 however has a plastic stock and is therefore too tactical to be safe!? You can carry a glock on your belt in Minnesota but if you accidentally cross an imaginary line in the woods, you've just qualified for a long-term prison stay in Ontario. If you like common sense, you've chosen the wrong hobby! I'm actually not totally sure either. The only solid fact I have in front of me is that a .22lr semi is legal. Beyond that, I'd be guessing.

Damn it, you're right - maths was never my strong point. 5mm is indeed .20 not .22 calibre. The heart wants what it can't have and living in the UK with a passion for firearms is terrible for my heart.

Maybe appeal is Italian for ugly? It's a curiously hideous little runt but if they chambered that thing in 5mm remington magnum, it'd be UK legal and I'd buy one today. I'd just squint whenever it was in direct view.

Thanks for the replies - it seems the general consensus is that in most cases zeroing/target shooting with a humane killer is not legal but apache's experience has been otherwise. One of these days I might understand our firearms laws...

I know they make rifles in .17HMR, but I haven't seen any sign that they produce another proprietary .17 round? I've pitched an email to Tangfolio so hopefully I'll get some info from the horses mouth. Obviously the semi .17 is verboten but if there's a newer light, fast, loud, expensive to feed round available - I'm game.

Hmmm, a semi .17 remington would be interesting but a whole world of overkill on rabbits and illegal in my neck of the woods to boot! You're right about its looks though - I hadn't been sick in my mouth for quite a while... :blink:

In the quest for an interesting new rimmy, I came across the Tangfolio Appeal. An ugly bullpup which looks like a Walther G22. Nice choice of calibres - but as well as .17HMR and M2, they clearly list .17h&r. Is this a new .17 I need to have? http://www.tanfoglio.it/uploads/catalog/media/pag23appealnewjpg.jpg

Sorry I was a bit unclear; I mean couriered to target shoot, not to despatch. I had heard something about sec.7 used for target shooting/research which had to be securely couriered. A lot of my "research" is actually hearsay

If they don't do well, Gov could spin it such that pistol sport is deemed unworthy of repealing the ban for. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't!

Hmmm, interesting stuff! It serves to reinforce what most of us already knew; various police forces interpret and enforce the law differently. I was under the impression sec.5 and sec.7 pistols had to be secure couriered to and from approved ranges, so I suppose the hassle of zeroing or practicing with humane killers is avoided by most forces. Maybe we'll see a change in the law if our pistol squad do well at the olympics, but I doubt it.

Thanks for the info fellas! I know humane killers are to be used at close range but thinking about a situation where a wounded deer had fallen out of safe reach and it wasn't safe to discharge your stalking rifle, a well placed pistol shot might be required. I've owned pistols overseas and I know it takes practice to shoot tight groups beyond a few yards (for me anyway) Just wondered what the relevant conditions were on an FAC. I imagine it becomes even more of a gray area when Northern Ireland permits pistols and the rest of the UK doesn't - could someone from Britain compete with their humane despatch pistol over there? I might well be opening a can of worms here and I think I'd better stop thinking now...

I know since 1997 this is a raw subject in the UK but... Speaking to a gent earlier who has a pistol for humane despatch of deer got me thinking - I gather a deer rifle can be zero'd on a suitable range and used on targets to maintain proficiency. Could he ligitimately take his pistol to a range to do the same? I can imagine somebody target shooting with a sec.5 pistol drawing a bit of unwanted attention!

There's a clay ground I shoot at which has to stop every time a jogger comes blundering into the firing line and even more rediculous are the cyclists appearing at 30mph. Admittedly it's a right-of-way but I can't help imagining what would happen if/when somebody doesn't hear the cease-fire through their ear defenders. Well last time out decoying, sitting in the hide I hear a thunk in the woods behind me. I have a look and can't see anything so I settle back down and as I am mounting the gun for a pair of pigeons coming in from my left, I hear "alright mate" from a few feet to my right. I unload and find out that this fella has come to find the golf balls he'd been driving at the pigeons in the middle of the field. He'd apparently been driving from a hill overlooking the copse I was shooting from. He complimented how realistic my decoys looked from 200 yards away and I complimented him on his long drive. We both agreed I was lucky not to get hit and he was lucky not to get shot!

It's important to note that just because the bird becomes still after your head twist, flick or whirl method, it doesn't mean that it's dead. There's every probability that it's just paralysed unless as somebody else said, you actually severed the artery. Crushing the brain is the most sure way, whether you bite it, squeeze it or use a priest...

I've had composting toilets for a few years and in no particular order, here's my advice; Don't fall in! Make sure any fluid from the pit wont run downhill and contaminate anything. Ensure the chambers/pits are properly sealed because if rats get in there... Let's just say they'll bite anything dangled in front of them. :look: Don't pee in it too much, don't use too much toilet roll, just a handful of damp sawdust after every use. Make sure it's legit to build a toilet there because if the council have to remove it, you will be charged for hazmat etc.

Great help, thanks Phil. Just bought some chokes from McAvoy Guns, Standish. £20 each is pretty reasonable. Between us, I think we've bought all of the available original lanber chokes in the UK!

I didn't expect anybody to have new ones in stock - thanks for the heads up! £100 for a set is a bit more than I can afford right now, but it's nice to have options. Sound advice thanks - I'll have a poke around some gun shops this weekend.

Hi, I'm looking for chokes for a Lanber 12 gauge. Old style I think (extended type with markings 0,3,5,7,10 etc). Ideally I need 1/4 (3), 1/2 (5) and 3/4 (7) but I'd consider any that you might have. Long shot I know, but please get in touch if you have some you want to sell. Thanks! Photo to show the type:

Haha, no. I'm no gun snob - but the first time I fired a hatsan, it jammed. The second time I fired a hatsan, it jammed... I bought a beretta al391. Problem is, it's too nice to take out on the foreshore so I'm going to have to keep it in the safe and buy a hatsan.

Now sorted, thanks...