sterling

Just looking at Underdog's great photos of his .410 exploits reminded me of the first shots I took with my new .410 earlier this year. A lovely spring stroll resulted in three rabbits for just two shots of the little shotgun! Okay, the third rabbit was taken with the .22LR barrel. There's only one gun I find more fun than a .410 and that's one with a rimfire attached to it...

Ken, I know those 3" eley extralongs you're using are a heavy load (and expensive) and I used to use them exclusively for my .410 shooting but if you haven't already, it might be worth patterning them. In both my .410's they pattern worse than the 12.5 gram eley's and the 14 gram lyalvale's. Despite being subs, they were also louder through my hushpower than standard cartridges. At 25 yards there were holes in the pattern big enough for several rabbits to get through! That's my excuse anyway.

Where muzzleloaders are concerned; SGC is all you need for a smoothbore and single ball, no FAC necessary - this only applies at an approved range with a suitable safety cert though. In 2013 the ACPO considered and decided against conditioning muzzleloaders for deer or fox so as far as I'm aware, nobody will be granted an FAC to use a muzzleloader with ball outside of a range.

These sound like the eley "fourlong". I got it in my head that they were pretty anemic being such a light load, so I switched to eley "extralongs" which are the 3" 18 gram version. That was until I patterned the two back to back through a full choke! As others have said though, I think #7 shot is a fair compromise in .410 and it seems to penetrate fur or feather just fine.

If your CZ is shooting really well now, I'd be cautious about trying a bedding job which won't see a massive return on a rimfire. With that said, I enjoy tinkering and I like it when other people do too, so have a look over at the "rimfire central" forum in the "CZ" section and you'll find a few write-ups about how to bed the 452 action, if you haven't already done it. My 452 American action is bedded, barrel free-floated and timney trigger installed. It's unnecessarily accurate with eley sub HP's for hunting and with eley match ammo at the range, I don't think I could ever do it justice.

Thanks for the replies chaps. Those are some great photos Underdog - just the kind of thing I had in mind! Nice to know the .45 is a viable wingshooter too because I've just spotted a used pedersoli which sounds like it will make a fine game-getter while on my walks. It seems like the .58 would be more gun than I need but it's interesting to see how the muzzleloaders' payloads compare to the modern gauges. I think I might just make myself a period longhunter outfit to go with the musket too. As if I don't scare dog walkers enough without looking like an 18th century frontiersman. Thanks for the offer of advice U, I will probably get in touch with a question or two as they arise when I get going. But first, off to get a gun...

Evening all, I wondered if the dirty front-stuffers amongst you would have any advice for my first forays into the dark art? I'm looking for a percussion BP muzzleloader smoothebore long gun (quite a mouthful I know). It'll just be to take on my strolls for the odd small game opportunity (with birdshot) and for shooting patched ball at the range. Can I ask what calibre/gun you might recommend? For instance, would a little .45 be the equivalent of my modern .410 in effectiveness or would I need a much larger bore to bring down game with shot? I'm not looking to replace the 12 gauge, just a little messy fun and something else to tinker with. Many thanks for any help!

No, I'm using .444 marlin cases with large rifle primers.

Well that's a relief. Despite regularly working up loads for conventional metallic rounds, the thought of squeezing an oversize wad through a very tight choke just spooks me a little. Anyway, thanks for the reassurance chaps! Now, back to shooting...

How do folks, A quick question for the shotgun reloading sages among you: I'm reloading all brass cases for the .410 which require oversized fibre wads at .430". So after slinging quite a few of these at rabbits to good effect, I measured what I observed to be a pretty tight choke and it turned out to be a scary .376". Fifty thou oversize just sounds bonkers to me so now that I've broken out in a cold sweat, is continuing to swage a .430" fibre wad through a .376" choke asking for a barrel bulge or worse? As always, thanks for any insight chaps!

Interested in the .410 please, PM on its way.

Ahh, thanks for the info. I've never had anything to do with ferrets, so that's news to me. I do recall being told not to use ferrets in a month that doesn't have an "r" in it (start of May to end of August) but wasn't aware it was too late in the year already. Well sod it, I'll just keep shooting them instead. As you were chaps....

Right chaps, I've got some rabbits that need to be gone asap and they aren't responding quick enough to just me solo lamping. I'll be blunt; this isn't me handing over a permanent permission and it isn't suitable for a novice shooter. It is a chance for someone who wants to work their ferrets to get out somewhere different. I would also be open to invite shooting on my other permissions with me further down the line. The land is accessible only on foot. There's no mixy and you're welcome to keep the rabbits as long as I get a couple for the pot. If all that sounds reasonable, feel free to get in touch. Cheers! Sterling.

I know what you're saying - I've been pretty underwhelmed by eley SSHP performance a few times but in fairness I've used ten times as many eleys than any other sub. Subs are a compromise - they don't cause much trauma and if they weren't a lot quieter than HV's, I wouldn't use them. Heck, I'd use an HMR if it was quiet and cheap but sadly it isn't. Winchester and CCI subs do seem to cause more damage than eley but CCI are very loud in comparison (last batch also had a lot go supersonic) and Winchesters just don't shoot in my rifle. I have had rabbits run when shot low in the head with subs too but if you look at a rabbit's anatomy, it really isn't surprising - there's a fine line between a brain shot and a jaw shot:

Despite thinking the hornet would be a sweet round for the small species at short range, I'm actually totally with you on the slow and heavy idea! Although, a lot of stalkers love their .223 for muntjac out to 200m and coincidentally, it's then carrying the same energy as a hornet would be at close range. I personally love the 30-30 and a down-loaded .45-70 would be good medicine, as would a hot .44 mag if it could make 1700ftlbs? Basically any big, soft slug at moderate velocities would be great I think. If my FEO will entertain my romantic notions of an iron-sighted, big bore lever action for deer, that's the way I'll go for woodland stalking. Just thank your lucky stars we don't have the Scottish 2450fps limit to contend with too! Anyway, nice job on the munty and keep pushing for that black powder project.

Not a lot, but what you do get is just about the best venison going and being so small, they are a pleasure to handle! A young buck produced this little lot plus a couple of pounds of mince. P.s. Nice work neutron619! Looking at you next to that tiny beast, I can't help thinking again that a .22 hornet or .357 magnum would be a nice round for woodland muntjac rather than the big boomers we use these days.

Originalgeezer - somebody may have mentioned it and I missed it while skim-reading but have you been over to "cross-guns" at Kinver? Cracking sporting layout only 5 miles or so from Stourbridge. Runs on a Sunday, 60 or 100 bird and there's plenty there to challenge a good shot. I haven't had the shotgun out of the safe for a long time and it's been even longer since I've shot clays though. I spend my time deer stalking and rabbit shooting, so I'm a rifle man at heart [read: **** with a shotgun] but I'd be up for meeting up there with any of you folks if you fancy a change of scene. Feel free to send a PM if you want to see someone who is really on a "plateau" with a shotgun. I can manage to press trap buttons fairly consistently though.

If I just factor in consumables; I reload .243 for £8/box of 20, while Privi is about £13 and Winchester is £25. My homeloads shoot groups about 1/2 the size of factory rounds and if I was burning through lots of rounds on a range, it would make total financial sense. For someone like me who maybe shoots 20 deer a year at 150m or less, the odd fox and an occasional zero session, it's only worth reloading if you enjoy it. I calculated that it will take 5 years to break even on my investment in relatively economical LEE reloading gear with .243 at this rate. Fortunately I reload for a range of more expensive calibres and enjoy it as a hobby though.

Now that looks like a brilliant day, great job Andrew! you've just inspired me to do something similar for my local bunch.

Now sorted, thanks...

That's the ticket, that's what I mean by a pipe centre. Just a 10.4mm "plug" revolving centre one end into the bore, one 5.3mm plug the other end into the primer pocket (both of them with a recess to allow the tool to come in to face off the ends). I'm just hobby tinkering though and I'm keen to learn so I'll try "our way" and Andy's when I've got some time again. Not to worry, I'll send you some. I'll send you a PM when I get them to arrange postage.

I had planned to use a pipe centre for accuracy but your way is the smart way. I've already paid for them mate but you're welcome to a few of mine if Underdog takes them out and sends them to you. You'd probably have to bung him some money to cover postage. I don't want to put words in his mouth though, so maybe message him yourself. If all else fails - if you cover postage, I'll send you some when they arrive. Did you follow all that?

I'm just learning as I go along but even on this old Zyto that's literally three times as old as I am, it's doable I reckon. It'll require making a tool but once the ID and primer pocket hole are reamed, it should be possible to make the other cuts on live centres and 0.8mm over that length shouldn't be impossible. Only one way to find out!..

Interesting. I had a couple of 9.3 x 74 shells in the past and they did work so I will have a look at some .444 brass - thanks for the hint Underdog. I may still have a go at turning a couple anyway when I've cleared enough space in the workshop to breathe. Ha, apologies for the typo - I was genuinely aware that the walls were 0.8mm rather than 1.6mm. It was the fact that typical brass is half that at around 0.4mm which was the concern. I'll go and edit the original post and nobody will ever know.

Hi all, So I want a handful of top quality .410 brass shells to play with. I don't personally like the result of fire-formed cases and I can't find factory stuff for love nor money. So with a quiet weekend ahead, I thought I'd settle down at the lathe and run up a few shells. I reload a fair few different cartridges now but I've got a question for you chaps with a lot more experience and scientific know-how than me: I'm planning to ream them for large pistol primers because I've got a lot knocking about, so ignore that bit - it's the case wall thickness that's concerning me. 12mm OD is a nice fit in my chamber and 10.4mm ID will fit standard .410 components nicely. That's leaving me with 0.8mm case walls though and I'm concerned that even in soft brass that's too thick to form/obturate to the chamber and will allow gas to flow back. What do you reloading gurus reckon? Try it as is, reduce OD, or increase ID and use over-sized cards/wads? Or maybe ditch the project and go to the pub? Thanks!