Fellside

I rate Toggi. Made I think for equestrian use. I’m on to my second pair in about 15 years. I wear them a lot in winter so they have to be comfortable and warm - they qualify on both counts. Couldn’t tell you what model/type but they’re the neoprene lined ones.

Not keen on the Gamebore 410s either. For me it’s back to Hull High Pheasant.

Late comment I know, just reporting that I have today tried a box of the Hull Pro 410. I got the same results as the OP - exactly per the picture top of thread. Pity, as I like Hull cart’s generally. I won’t be rushing back to buy more of these however….!

It won’t be the first time a so called ‘scientific body’ have quoted 1% as being significant. However it is clearly non significant (ns) being far less than the usual arbitrary 5% threshold. I will spare everyone a long stat’s critique but suffice to say, the HSE assertion based on these figures has no scientific basis whatsoever.….. i.e it is phoney! Get someone in to a room with the HSE exec’ and confront them with this nonsense. It should have been looked at by our ministry of common sense before being published….! There are several other matters of concern. Mainly, who were the authors/sponsors of the contributing studies (I don’t have time to look) re bias motivation? How robust/repeatable were their methods? I honestly don’t know the answers to these questions - but can smell a rat somewhere. I would give this piece of work 3/10 for effort and neat presentation.

🙂 👍

I’m currently down to my last slab of Fiocchi TT2 Fibre. Stamped as 7 1/2 but really UK 7s. Marvellous on clay pigeons…. and the real ones. And…… they’re red!

Can quite believe it. I think hitting my aforementioned pigeon was just a bit of luck considering the balling etc. I didn’t fancy eating it……! I have vivid memories of a big plume of feathers shooting up in to the sky from the exit. Anyway, think I’m straying off topic some what. So I will just finish by saying yes I like Fiocchi fibre cart’s. There you go….. 🙂

Interesting - thanks for posting. I did have a surprising experience with a certain cartridge type when using my back-bored browning. Namely the clumping or ‘welding’ of shot. It was only prevalent with this one particular brand, which I won’t name and shame. I began testing the patterns after punching a hole all the way through an overhead pigeon. Not high - maybe 30 yards. Cylinder choke. It was as though it had been hit by a 303. The wad was short and very hard, with obvious consequences. As mentioned the Eley cartridges / wads performed fine.

I did once own a ‘back bored’ browning. It was .740 thou’ across its true bore size, also with long cones. I did notice that the hard composite fibre wads (more like a solid plug really) were less than ideal. I presumed at the time that there was a little ‘blow-past’ occurring. However, I was saved by the very different Eley fibre wad. This was much more malleable and for want of a better expression….. squashy. The patterns were excellent. I can’t prove scientifically that the wad helped, but it is highly likely that it compressed / expanded more than the harder type, providing a better seal through the long cones and overbored barrels. Hey ho, you live and learn.

I personally think that there is a significant difference (> 5%) between not only different brands/types but also between cartridges from the same box if the quality and consistency is lacking. While velocity can vary, another aspect that can differ considerably is pattern quality. I have come across some excellent patterns in the past, but also some real stinkers. Usually the most blotchy patterns (with correspondingly open areas) are those which have a snappy velocity but with low antimony soft lead. This also leads to pellets bonding. I have also had highly erratic patterns from cartridges where the plastic wad opened partially, fully (flowered) or not opened at all. Some were also loosing their petals altogether, so that only the base plastic plug could be found. These were fired vertically to test for wad quality only - i.e not impacting a pattern plate. This of course causes inconsistencies in both the pattern quality and also pattern width at a given distance. Some patterns can also be skewed away from centre. I don’t use plastic wads these days and find fibre wads - providing they are of consistent quality - to be far less problematic. There is certainly a great psychological advantage in using a cartridge which we’ve shot well with. However, it is also likely that this confidence may emanate from considerable product evolution and development. At worst it may arise from a manufacturer’s recipe of convenience and low cost, which by hapless coincidence just works well. Which ever way we arrive at consistency and quality, there is no doubt that these aspects are important. If anyone has doubts about the importance of using a regular consistent cartridge, box to box and batch to batch…….? Then try suggesting to an Olympic competitor, that they shouldn’t use that cartridge they’ve got used to and which got them in to the final. Suggest instead that they should use this totally different random one….?! I think we all know what their answer would be. Unfortunately I’ve never been faced with that dilemma….. 🙂. However I do appreciate that some cartridges do perform differently, enough to be noticeable: more recoil, less recoil, slow, fast, good/bad patters through my chosen gun and choke. Admittedly, if I’m shooting at a ground where targets are 20 to 35 yards, it won’t make a huge difference, but on the long stuff…..? Definitely. Is it possible that I can get just an extra couple of breaks out of my 100 with consistent quality? Sure. In a competition, I won’t say no to that.

Consistency from one cartridge to another is pretty useful - and batch to batch. As Old farrier points out quality control is key. If the cartridge timing and velocity is too variable, the challenges are obvious, especially at rangier stuff. I think having a ‘confidence cartridge’ has a psychological advantage too of course. Well……it does for me anyway. Other views are available.

Indeed. I have got rid of a few hitters in my time. I have one now and keep telling myself: do not part ex….! …. 🙂

I have used a ‘gas pipe’ on many occasions, but personally just can’t get away with them. Even if I can get one to fit perfectly, I can’t hit a barn door. Strange. They just aren’t for me. I think for the OP, his partner’s best option (as I think you mentioned) is to embark upon a ‘try before you buy’ quest. Even as a novice, something will stand out as feeling better than the rest and break a few more.

I tried using pigeon cartridges for game shooting once - they were gamebore clear pigeon. I was just curious. They killed the average stuff very well of course. However I mainly shoot on hilly ground and some of the taller birds really need 5s and the pigeon loads weren’t up to the more testing drives. I did end up reaching for my 32 gram 5s on about half of the drives. Re Hull game cart’s I just treat the as ‘boggoe basic’ as you would say. There’s hardly any price difference between the dedicated game loads. I suppose it boils down to trust and consistency as they pattern well from my chosen gun/choke. I agree that the comp x are more like practice/fun cart’s than a serious competition load - but surprisingly decent. I think you are being charged too much for them at £300/1000. They aren’t that dear where I live. I’ve been paying circa £260 to £270. Having said that, they are due a price increase any time now….! I have not tried the F3s which you recommend. I will look out for those, thanks, but will only buy them if there is a fibre version. I won’t use a plastic wad these days. That’s enough of a cartridge ramble from me - I’d better get some work done…… 🙂

I have just noticed HantsRob’s post. I shouldn’t write my replies in a rush..?! That’s a very kind offer. I would take him up on it. The advice about trying second hand or ‘demo’ guns is spot on. Don’t forget to try a heavier 20 bore though. A good example is the Browning 525 - just a thought.