Stopped while lamping

[markbivvy]

Now im lost Mark? Sorry

 

no worries Skippy, some in here will get it.

[Jim Sarakun]

Having read this thread and after ignoring the petty bickering amongst the more volatile members, who have appeared to, thankfully, agree to disagree, I get this anti Police feeling.

 

The Police, do correct me if I am wrong, are public servants, (that's us, the public,) human and negotiable. Negotiable may not be the right word, but they have a higher cloud to reach up to, to justify their actions. So if you think they have got it wrong, politely tell them, they may see the sense, but don't push it, it will all come out in the wash at the end of the hearing. That higher cloud is the guy who wears the wig made from the pubic hair of a horse. His say is final.

 

Now the way I see it, is this, if you have covered your backside and made all those oh so difficult time consuming phone calls, which you must, explained to the officer who responded to the complaint that he may have got it wrong, then the guy who wears the wig made from the pubic hair of a horse, will see that you have conducted yourself professionally throughout, throw the case out, and you keep your hard to earn, easy to lose, license. Simples.

 

Regardless of how many times, or how many stations you have to phone, just do it, be responsible, be covered. Never mind if they say don't call them, call them anyway, because the day you don't, will be the day the armed response guys come out and order you to throw your gun down in the mud, and order you to lay down spread eagled in it too. If you have been so stupid to get to this stage, shut up and do as you are told, don't be even more stupid and take it to the next, we will miss you on this forum and most of us can't afford the flowers.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Jim Sarakun

[njc110381]

I'm lucky not to have been in this situation yet! I'm sure the time will come, I've had several mates say "seen you out with the rifle the other night" after driving along the main road and spotting me plodding my way around the fields. What I do I do pretty openly! It's only a matter of time.

 

One of the first things I do when I get new land is try to get to know the natives. One of my shoots is very near a house. In fact sometimes I lie prone with my feet under the boundary hedge which is six feet from their kitchen window! I try to avoid this, but it's the only safe angle I can shoot the warren by the house from so it just has to do. I spotted the chap getting out of his car one day when I was out and made a point of getting there to introduce myself. I told him of the problem I had getting the bunnies in the hedge near the house safely and he said why not sit in his garden and shoot towards the field! How helpful is that! Knowing the locals is one sure way to avoid a call from them.

 

If I do get a call out then that's life I guess. I'll put my gun down and do as I'm told, it only takes a minute. I do hope I don't get a fool of a copper who gives me stupid orders. Once the guns are down I could see me getting a little grumpy with that. Luckily I think my area has yet to catch up with the stupid ways of the city police so the chances of that happening are slim.

 

I did have my FEO say once that it may be an idea to give them a call if I shoot by the motorway. His words were "there are so many townies passing by someone's bound to call us". I guess that's about right. If I do shoot there I get in the hedge so I can't be seen and I never lamp there.

[ForeignGadger]

Maybe an easy way would be to use email to tell them: , you could have a distribution list and a pre-typed statement and just fill in the date.

 

Like in business emails, the bigger the volume the sooner they will learn to ignore them and just file them for CYA (cover your ****).

 

FG

[Blackbart]

Having read this thread and after ignoring the petty bickering amongst the more volatile members, who have appeared to, thankfully, agree to disagree, I get this anti Police feeling.

 

The Police, do correct me if I am wrong, are public servants, (that's us, the public,) human and negotiable. Negotiable may not be the right word, but they have a higher cloud to reach up to, to justify their actions. So if you think they have got it wrong, politely tell them, they may see the sense, but don't push it, it will all come out in the wash at the end of the hearing. That higher cloud is the guy who wears the wig made from the pubic hair of a horse. His say is final.

 

Now the way I see it, is this, if you have covered your backside and made all those oh so difficult time consuming phone calls, which you must, explained to the officer who responded to the complaint that he may have got it wrong, then the guy who wears the wig made from the pubic hair of a horse, will see that you have conducted yourself professionally throughout, throw the case out, and you keep your hard to earn, easy to lose, license. Simples.

 

Regardless of how many times, or how many stations you have to phone, just do it, be responsible, be covered. Never mind if they say don't call them, call them anyway, because the day you don't, will be the day the armed response guys come out and order you to throw your gun down in the mud, and order you to lay down spread eagled in it too. If you have been so stupid to get to this stage, shut up and do as you are told, don't be even more stupid and take it to the next, we will miss you on this forum and most of us can't afford the flowers.

 

 

Its not an anti police thing,but it does pee me off when the police start making things up.You know just little things like rules for shooting,regulations,laws.By the way telling a copper he is wrong only goes one way whether you do it politely or not.

You may mock the "time consuming and difficult" phone calls,but it works out at about 900 phone calls a year,so you sit down and make 900 phone calls lasting( lets say they are really quick)2-3 minutes and then tell me it wasnt time consuming.And i may be wrong but have i not passed all the police checks inspections,etc and they deem me capable of assesing land to deem it safe to shoot but are now saying i cant go unless i phone them Do you have to phone when you do other lawfull sports ?

Can you tell me what this "cover yourself" thing means? as from what i can gather it doesnt matter if you have "clocked in"if someone reports gun shots or man with gun they will have to come out anyway.

[Jim Sarakun]

I know it is a pain Blackbart, making all those calls, but we all know the end result if we don't. We here, diligently make them, as more and more of our shooting ground is swallowed up by housing. Where once we could see open fields for miles, (in some places) there is now a housing estate. These houses are filled with people who would phone the Police if they hear you crack a Walnut in the field.

 

All the phone calls we have made over the years, have now put us in a position where the Police know us, and recognise our registration numbers when that trespassing pedestrian phones them and reports us after hearing our shots. No more does the Range Rover come racing over the field with the lights flashing, the last time they parked up by the gate, and walked over. They knew it was us, but said they would just check anyway. One time we were actually standing beside the disgruntled trespasser while they phoned the Police. She apologised to us after telling us that the Police said they knew we were there and we had every right to be.

 

I do follow these threads and add my tuppence, hoping shooters will take heed and make it easier for themselves, by not getting too balshy, consequently not creating that knock on effect that will eventually absorb us all in more rules and regulations. The Police are only doing their job, some it would appear, more professionally than others, though I am sure they will all be more consistent as time goes on.

 

So I will reiterate here, make those calls, get known by your local Police, it makes it so much easier for you as time passes. You spend approx. 2 days per annum making those calls when you add up those minutes. Surely it is worth those 2 days if it keeps you shooting for another 50 years eh? You have shown you are a responsible citizen, you have your ticket don't you, so if in the unlikely event those bogus claims get you in front of the man with the wig, he will see you have done all you can, end of story.

[Blackbart]

Do you not think by voluntarily making all these calls it will sooner or later mean they will become compulsory and another regulation of gun ownership ?Like the way the DSC is well on its way,infact some forces allready think it is compulsory to have this if you want a deer calibre rifle.

I dont have the problems of housing estates popping up as it is quite rural where i live and shoot and i have shot in the area for years so i dont think it is on that a cop can say if you dont phone first you will end up with someone pointing guns at you.I think a better solution would be for me to give them a contact number and then if anything happens or is reported in the area they could phone me or the other lads who shoot there and they could decide there and then before they spend x amount of thousands of pounds sending the A team and choppers.This way there could be a way of recording incidents instead of recording "Nothing going on".

[pavman]

Al4x is absolutely correct, it is not a legal requirement ,however the BASC CoP on lamping has always suggested that it is a good idea to let the police know when you are out at night.

BUT in real terms even if you have called and the police get a 'complaint' they will still may take a decision on whether to not to send an officer to investigate or an ARV.

 

BASC are currently re-writing and will then re-distribute our guidance book to the police on firearms and shooting.

 

David

 

David why would BASC suggest this? we are legit and as long as you carry your permission letters/maps/certs what’s the problem. Any situation can be quickly and politely sorted should the need arise... Why suggest more hoops of fire for us to jump through, because next thing will be a booking in and out situation on your own land in many cases! lets get real and let legit folk carry on as we are, how many firearms crimes have been committed in the past by gen shooting folk? not many i would guess,

 

The Police round here cant attend a crime let alone take a phone call about lamping, make it UK wide they will never get orf the blower I always call my land owners to say I will be out lamping is that not enough?

 

if BASC want to suggest sweeping change that will affect all firearms members along the lines of ringing plod prior to shooting at all times would a consultation be appropriate first?

 

It would be in my book so don’t go that route on my behalf, you wont get any thanks!

Edited October 19, 2009 by pavman

[markbivvy]

David why would BASC suggest this? we are legit and as long as you carry your permission letters/maps/certs what’s the problem. Any situation can be quickly and politely sorted should the need arise... Why suggest more hoops of fire for us to jump through, because next thing will be a booking in and out situation on your own land in many cases! lets get real and let legit folk carry on as we are, how many firearms crimes have been committed in the past by gen shooting folk? not many i would guess,

 

The Police round here cant attend a crime let alone take a phone call about lamping, make it UK wide they will never get orf the blower I always call my land owners to say I will be out lamping is that not enough?

 

if BASC want to suggest sweeping change that will affect all firearms members along the lines of ringing plod prior to shooting at all times would a consultation be appropriate first?

 

It would be in my book so don’t go that route on my behalf, you wont get any thanks!

 

The old bill started asking for it, basc rolled over and changed its policy from not informing them to phoning every time you go out.

why the old bill asked for it was the amount of unarmed bobbys being sent to potential firearms incidents and getting shot at by scum bags.

now if they know armed people are in the area they sent ARV,S and another report goes in as as a firearms incident.

 

If every shooter and dog lamper where to phone in the old bill would soon know the amount of folk out at night and would turn this against us by saying there is far to many doing it and want numbers restricting,and would be calling for more qualification of them doing the night time shooting ,lamping.

drip drip drip.

And they want us to help them.

 

They just dont turn out at night either, had as many visits in day light hours.

or do you think they are not bothered about day time incidents.

Edited October 19, 2009 by markbivvy

[David BASC]

As usual Mark makes up statements about BASC that he cannot possibly back up and support but I am sure it gives him a warm feeling, after all he must love it as he keeps doing it!

 

The CoP on night shooting offers guidance on best practice. It is not 'cast in stone' none of them are, but the wording will change from time to time. The CoP's are 'owned' buy BASC advisory committees. The committees of members consult on the content with staff. Of course, based on changes or feedback the wording will change.

 

If you choose not to let the police know or indeed if the police in your area say not to bother then fine - go with the flow.

 

David

[markbivvy]

As usual Mark makes up statements about BASC that he cannot possibly back up and support but I am sure it gives him a warm feeling, after all he must love it as he keeps doing it!

 

So what did change your organisations advice on phoning the police please.

and could you please tell me of a restriction that the old bill, ACPO,defra,etc have brought in that your or any organisation have over turned .

Edited October 20, 2009 by markbivvy

[Blackbart]

As usual Mark makes up statements about BASC that he cannot possibly back up and support but I am sure it gives him a warm feeling, after all he must love it as he keeps doing it!

 

The CoP on night shooting offers guidance on best practice. It is not 'cast in stone' none of them are, but the wording will change from time to time. The CoP's are 'owned' buy BASC advisory committees. The committees of members consult on the content with staff. Of course, based on changes or feedback the wording will change.

 

If you choose not to let the police know or indeed if the police in your area say not to bother then fine - go with the flow.

 

David

 

 

Also David while your on if "the cops are owned by BASC advisory committees" could you have a word and see if they could do anything with the speeding ticket i got on the 4th oct :blink:

[dieseldogg]

Erm

How come this is all from a British mainland perspective.

I dont recall seeing any posting concerning N Ireland ?

Did I miss sommat?

This from the perspective of NI perhaps becoming a little "over gunned" as a result of years of "over control" being relaxed.

And all & sundry taking advantage :blink:

I know my FEO expressed the ironic fear of being accidentally shot by a rifle she approved

In respect of a total accident I hasten to add

Being an Ex reporter they could visulize the newspaper headlines.

But maybe us folks over here actually understand guns better?, from bitter experience.

jat

M

[David BASC]

From my experience of shooting in NI, although your laws are a tad stricter in some cases, the general perception of firearms for sporting use is much more widely accepted than on the mainland.

 

I remember a few years ago when I was in NI, I was walking down the street of a large village / small town with three guys, all of who had shotguns out of slips / over shoulder, we were off rabbiting. A police car came towards us, slowed down (oh **** I thought) widow would down and the cop in the passenger seat waved and wished us good luck!

 

Now to answer a couple of points about ‘what have BASC done’:

 

ACPO and BASC work very closely together, for example our Airgun and Shotgun CoP are both endorsed by ACOP. Our firearms team have been working recently with ACPO on their Best Practice guidance.

 

You may have head that the draft Open General licences that were published a couple of weeks ago banned the sale of shot pigeons – BASC got this over turned within 24 hours.

 

When Lincs police wanted ALL shooters to report in whenever they went shooting- BASC got this over tuned.

 

What changed our view on advising for lamping, well firstly this has been our position for a while now, and based on feedback from members and the police we added this to our CoP. Like I said, the details of our CoPs may well change as circumstances change.

 

David

 

As to your speeding ticket, I have referred this to the BASC motoring services Advisory Committee…. :blink:

[markbivvy]

the question was.

please tell me of a restriction that the old bill, ACPO,defra,etc have brought in that your or any organisation have over turned .

 

 

What changed our view on advising for lamping, well firstly this has been our position for a while now, and based on feedback from members and the police we added this to our CoP. Like I said, the details of our CoPs may well change as circumstances change.

can this be seen anywhere please

 

and the police

they are still asking for it by the looks of this thread.

 

You may have head that the draft Open General licences that were published a couple of weeks ago banned the sale of shot pigeons – BASC got this over turned within 24 hours.

 

Again not quite true, the draft was a rough draft to be put out to those involved in the sport

for finalising before any changes was made, it was not until it came to light on a few forums that ANYONE know of the mistake, as that is what it was.

Talking of the general license, can you tell us how many birds have been removed from it say since 1962, and how many basc have got re added to the list please.

Edited October 20, 2009 by markbivvy

[MC]

the question was.

please tell me of a restriction that the old bill, ACPO,defra,etc have brought in that your or any organisation have over turned .

 

 

What changed our view on advising for lamping, well firstly this has been our position for a while now, and based on feedback from members and the police we added this to our CoP. Like I said, the details of our CoPs may well change as circumstances change.

can this be seen anywhere please

 

and the police

they are still asking for it by the looks of this thread.

 

You may have head that the draft Open General licences that were published a couple of weeks ago banned the sale of shot pigeons – BASC got this over turned within 24 hours.

 

Again not quite true, the draft was a rough draft to be put out to those involved in the sport

for finalising before any changes was made, it was not until it came to light on a few forums that ANYONE know of the mistake, as that is what it was.

 

 

 

What size axe do you use for splitting hairs Mark? Is there a difference between rough draft and draft?

 

The same question could be asked about what have SACS or CA or any of the others done? We still got a hunting ban despite the efforts of the CA, does that make them useless? what legislation have the shooters in kilts overturned?

 

All I can say is I am a member of BASC and have always had first rate service from them, I am not a member of SACS or CA so I cannot comment.

[markbivvy]

Since 1962 or there abouts no one has been doing more. (so i keep reading)

 

the shooting community keep loosing species,land,rights etc and just this last few weeks 2 more bids of the GL.

 

if basc is the best we have then things are looking bleak at best.

 

 

the question was.

please tell me of a restriction that the old bill, ACPO,defra,etc have brought in that your or any organisation have over turned .

Edited October 20, 2009 by markbivvy

[tractorboy]

mark dont take this the wrong way but which 2 birds have gone from the gl ?

[markbivvy]

mark dont take this the wrong way but which 2 birds have gone from the gl ?

 

2 types of gull.

[MC]

2 types of gull?

 

Excuse the language but BIG ******* DEAL,

 

Canada geese have been added to it and I know which one I would rather shoot.

 

Obviously noone can say how shooting as a sport would be if it wasn't for BASC but I'll hazard a guess that you wouldn't be a gun owner. But by your reasoning shooting organisations are pointless as they haven't overturned anything.

[markbivvy]

2 types of gull?

 

Excuse the language but BIG ******* DEAL,

 

Canada geese have been added to it and I know which one I would rather shoot.

 

Obviously noone can say how shooting as a sport would be if it wasn't for BASC but I'll hazard a guess that you wouldn't be a gun owner. But by your reasoning shooting organisations are pointless as they haven't overturned anything.

 

foul mouth you have there martin.

i dont shoot geese or gulls pheasant grouse or partridge.

just an observation, toilet mouth.

 

point is why are we loosing so much if we have these organisations.

Edited October 20, 2009 by markbivvy

[al4x]

ok Mark 2 sets of gulls so as MC says whoppee doo

 

The reason they have come off is the numbers have supposedly declined so like any species on the general license they can be removed if it looks like we're going to wipe them out. To me thats about conservation not just taking something away from Mark bivvy

[markbivvy]

ok Mark 2 sets of gulls so as MC says whoppee doo

 

The reason they have come off is the numbers have supposedly declined so like any species on the general license they can be removed if it looks like we're going to wipe them out. To me thats about conservation not just taking something away from Mark bivvy

 

read all of post 71

if you will please.

 

numbers have supposedly declined

do you mean like starling and cormorants are.

wool and eyes come to mind here.

Edited October 20, 2009 by markbivvy

[dieseldogg]

Wot brings me to another observation wot I have observed over the past 35 years.

& coming from a farmers son it might be a bit "rich"

But why oh why do shooting organizations seem to squabble among themselves so

To the the detriment of ALL shooters

I purchased a Gunmart recently

And was perplexed by the full page article supporting Olympic shootin

AT DARTFORD

Erm

Whats wrong with Bisley

My perception may be skewed by shooting at Bisley as a young man

But surely it already has a world wide reputation

that should be built upon?

For the future

jat

M

[MC]

Mark,

 

I did say excuse my language, you don't shoot geese or gulls pheasant or partridge but you seem to kick off quite a bit.

 

I do apologise for my potty mouth, maybe I should have put it as Al4x did WHOOP DE DOO.

 

These organisations don't make the laws do they? They can oppose whatever, come up with reasoning to do something or not but if the powers that be won't or don't want to listen then there is nothing they can do.

 

Especially when you are up against a public school boy who pulls the parliament act out of the bag when he can't get his own way by stamping his feet.