snipe Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hi, first post so please take it easy on me (have been looking in and learning for a while)! After some advice/input please, if possible. I'm quite new to shooting (2 years or so), and the matter of 'chokes' is confusing me somewhat. Does anybody have information on the following please: Say at a range of 30-40 metres how wide and how long would a shot pattern be given an improved cylinder choke? And then the same, for example, if you choked it to full? Would the pattern length change? or just the width? I have until now tended to shoot both barrels quite open. But am intrigued with what change I would see by changing the chokes, if any. Sorry, perhaps these are daft questions, but would love some insight please if anyone has some. Thanks a lot. Snipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 i could be totally wrong here, but i think alot of it depends on the gun and the cartridge used. best idea would be to try out a few patterns, old rolls of wallpaper are good to see the differences (obviousley wall paper thats not hanging on a wall at the time...). i know (ahem) a person who has, in the past, shot concrete walls at farm yards to test the pattern, but farmers dont appreciate it that much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 I asked a similar question...I expect you will get the same answer..go to a ground and use a pattern plate with various chokes and see for yourself, theres no substitute for seeing it in the flesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Here's are guide which estimates the pattern at various distances http://www.islandlakeshootingrange.com/shotgunfacts.htm it also has this http://www.islandlakeshootingrange.com/sctargets.htm and this http://www.islandlakeshootingrange.com/ima...hart_inside.jpg to give you an idea on what choke to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipe Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Thanks for the quick responses gents. That's fine to cover width I guess, but how about the trail/length at say 30-40 metres? Also, say a standard 28grm #6 cartridge (plastic or felt) would there be a rough indication of width with each choke? Thanks, Snipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipe Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Here's are guide which estimates the pattern at various distances http://www.islandlakeshootingrange.com/shotgunfacts.htm it also has this http://www.islandlakeshootingrange.com/sctargets.htm and this http://www.islandlakeshootingrange.com/ima...hart_inside.jpg to give you an idea on what choke to use. Great help, thanks a lot BlaserF3, much appreciated. How about the length of the pattern though? I'm just wondering how much room for error there is on lead etc. Thanks, Snipe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 I would not bother about shot string at all if you are on target it does not matter. We tend to miss things by feet by misjudgement. PM sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipe Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 To add another question to the mix (sorry!!); what difference would 2 inches make on barrel length i.e. 28inch to 30inch? The majority of my shooting is rough; snipe, woodcock, duck. But I do occasionaly go pheasant shooting. Very few pigeons where I'm based, sadly. Snipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 It would put you 2" nearer to what you are going to shoot If you are happy with 28" barrels stick with them, I think a lot of shooters use guns especially clay shooters that the barrels are too long for their physique . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 snipe ill be honest, i think youre over complicating this a bit too much for yourself. what i always believe is rifle shooting is a science, shotgun shooting is an art. dont worry about velocity's and string lengths and barrel lengths, best way to find this all out is to get a bit of practice in - to check patterns use a pattern plate, etc; string length and all that doesnt matter either; have a few shots at the clays, as long as youre hitting them itll all fall into place, as for barrel length i think (not 100% sure) that a longer barrel will give you a slightly tighter shot pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipe Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Thanks for all the input and feedback gents, much appreciated. I am quite positive that I am overcomplicating things!! he he. To be honest I am certain that none of the questions I ask will make a me a better shoot, but I am intrigued with the science of it all, and am just trying to fathom the different options etc. open to me. I 100% agree about visiting a clay ground though. I was shooting like an absolute ***, so decided to go for a lesson around this time last year. In a matter of 5 minutes my faults were seen and cured, amazing. Can't say that I was hitting them all, but certainly quite a few more than before I started! Money and time very well spent. Was lucky enough to go to Cordoba (Argentina) back in March for the doves. Must say that really helps with the practice element too, and understanding lead etc. Got to learn some simple basics very quickly. Thanks again, Snipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hi, Since you asked and to stop you wondering, at the distances you mentioned shot string can be anything from 3 to 6 metres. Now, what are you going to do with that information? Simple, what everyone says, forget about it and concentrate on enjoying yourself. What are you shooting? Clays/quarry/both? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipe Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hi,Since you asked and to stop you wondering, at the distances you mentioned shot string can be anything from 3 to 6 metres. Now, what are you going to do with that information? Simple, what everyone says, forget about it and concentrate on enjoying yourself. What are you shooting? Clays/quarry/both? Cheers Nope, ask more questions!! To be honest wymberley I am enjoying myself, but am also enjoying myself by discovering more behind the science too - we're all different. I only shoot quarry - have only shot clays once in the last year. Nothing against clays, mind. So at 30 metres, for example, and given the same cartridge and the same conditions the shot string could vary by 3 metres? Would choke affect the length of the shot string? Snipe. p.s. thanks for the PM BlaserF3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) How fast the gun is moving will also cause a difference in the shot-string. On many fast crossers, the speed of the gun is very important. I tend to use a swing-through approach, which relies on the gun accelerating through a target, whilst some favour a maintained lead. I have a very interesting PDF file on shot sizes, choke sizes etc if you want it sent by email. Edited November 20, 2009 by humperdingle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipe Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 How fast the gun is moving will also cause a difference in the shot-string. On many fast crossers, the speed of the gun is very important. I tend to use a swing-through approach, which relies on the gun accelerating through a target, whilst some favour a maintained lead. I have a very interesting PDF file on shot sizes, choke sizes etc if you want it sent by email. Yes please! Thanks humperdingle. PM sent. Snipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Yes please! Thanks humperdingle. PM sent. Snipe. No problem. It might look like a lot of numbers, but break it into sections, and it's very useful to know the little details in shot density at different choke and cartridge etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipe Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 That is a cracking pdf, thanks a lot humperdingle!! That'll keep me busy for a while!! Snipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hi, No. In your original post you mentioned 30 to 40 metres, hence my answer. For 30 metres it's about 3 metres. If you're into the science, as the load from a modern cartridge leaves the barrel at 18000 inches per second and the load is, say, 1" long, how fast do you calculate you would have to swing the gun for this movement to affect that load? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 The speed of the gun swing has no relevance at all to the shot load at the target. you just cannot move it fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipe Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hi,No. In your original post you mentioned 30 to 40 metres, hence my answer. For 30 metres it's about 3 metres. If you're into the science, as the load from a modern cartridge leaves the barrel at 18000 inches per second and the load is, say, 1" long, how fast do you calculate you would have to swing the gun for this movement to affect that load? Cheers Fast? Or is the answer 2? See, you're getting into this science stuff wymberley, well done you! Anyway, thanks for all the constructive answers gents, much appreciated. Plenty for me to chew over. Snipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Snipe, hi, Stringing; if you don't know and you're given two different opinions, who do you believe? Gave you the chance to work it out for yourself, mate, now you KNOW. Going to send PM. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Snipe, hi,Stringing; if you don't know and you're given two different opinions, who do you believe? Gave you the chance to work it out for yourself, mate, now you KNOW. Going to send PM. Cheers The difference is that I am right and you are wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Blazer, Would you care to read and inwardly digest all this again? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beretta Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 im with blaser on this. to 'string' your shot your gun would have to be moving quicker than the shot leaves the end of the barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hmm, interesting article here: http://www.gundogsonline.com/ArticleServer...01-F165379ACED5 Whilst a faster swinging gun may not help elongate a shot string to any significant degree, it will certainly help you get far enough in front of the target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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