redthunder Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) Hi, Can you give my mate some advice One of my permissions i shoot, but havn't been on for a good few months asked me to pop over soon and sort out the foxes with the big rifle . i havn't had chance to get there because the weather has been so **** the farmer also said the rabbit numbers are on the rise and could i knock them down cool so i rang my mate jenks who's on this forum he's got a 17hmr do you want to come and nail them but he said he cant shoot on this farm without written permission ?? I told him he doesn't need it with me ive got the permission and ive got an open ticket and ive got a slot on my ticket for a 17 hmr this farm is passed for .243 can somone shed some light on this subject?? cheers. Edited December 6, 2009 by redthunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) your mate is correct and if your slot for hmr is empty,he cannot use his on your empty slot but i believe you could if it was on your ticket and close to you..(this last bit can vary unfortunately by area to area). he could shoot if he was named as a guest and his fac department were sent a copy. al Edited December 6, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redthunder Posted December 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 your mate is correct and if your slot for hmr is empty,he cannot use his on your empty slot but i believe you could if it was on your ticket and close to you..(this last bit can vary unfortunately by area to area).he could shoot if he was named as a guest and his fac department were sent a copy. al Im not saying for him to shoot there on his own but as my guest when im shooting what about if i was going to buy his 17hmr and was trying it out how would the law see that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 I assume your mate is not on an 'open' ticket? Why can't your mate go with you to the farmer and get permission? Seems to be the easiest, provided the land is passed for 17hmr of course David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Although pedantic, your friend is correct - technically Personally... ? I wouldn't give it a 2'nd thought If it's such a big deal, I suggest you clear it verbally with the farmer, that said person is permitted to use his rifle on the land.. You do NOT need written permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Although pedantic, your friend is correct - technically Personally... ? I wouldn't give it a 2'nd thought If it's such a big deal, I suggest you clear it verbally with the farmer, that said person is permitted to use his rifle on the land.. You do NOT need written permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Pretty sure he doesn't need a written permission if you're with him. Just to be on the safe side why don't you ask farmer for him? He can always speak to flo and notify them to be sure, when i got my last permission i just told my flo and gave him the land owners details, job done! Got my variation through for the land no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) Im not saying for him to shoot there on his own but as my guest when im shooting what about if i was going to buy his 17hmr and was trying it out how would the law see that ? hence me saying close to you..meaning shooting with you and not on his own.. Although pedantic, your friend is correct - technically Personally... ? I wouldn't give it a 2'nd thought If it's such a big deal, I suggest you clear it verbally with the farmer, that said person is permitted to use his rifle on the land.. You do NOT need written permission. written permission has to be sent to our local fac department(closed ticket),as they will not entertain verbal or no permission letter..hence my written permission words and this can vary by area comment.so i`m covering my area and his. i agree with your other comments. al ps..redthunder,is your mate closed or open ticket?..easier if he is open and no problem. Edited December 6, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 written permission has to be sent to our local fac department(closed ticket),as they will not entertain verbal or no permission letter..hence my written permission words and this can vary by area comment.so i`m covering my area and his. Maybe they did send written confirmation afterall then, i havent got a letter from the land owner tho, can i get in bother for this then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 sorry to go off thread a bit here, but, how hard is it to get an open ticket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) written permission has to be sent to our local fac department(closed ticket),as they will not entertain verbal or no permission letter..hence my written permission words and this can vary by area comment.so i`m covering my area and his. Maybe they did send written confirmation afterall then, i havent got a letter from the land owner tho, can i get in bother for this then? to be honest,as your not in my area it can vary,so all i can say is..did you get your fac based on the land your talking about?..if yes then they must have accepted the non permission letter.my advice is ring your fac department and ask,safer that way and you get correct advice,unless someone in your area can confirm that you are ok and they have the same ticket as you(open or closed). as for open ticket obtaining?..this depends on your circumstances and only asking your fac department,as will be able to say yes,send a letter in or no you will not get one. al Edited December 6, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 to be honest,as your not in my area it can vary,so all i can say is..did you get your fac based on the land your talking about?..if yes then they must have accepted the non permission letter.my advice is ring your fac department and ask,safer that way and you get correct advice,unless someone in your area can confirm that you are ok and they have the same ticket as you(open or closed). as for open ticket obtaining?..this depends on your circumstances and only asking your fac department,as will be able to say yes,send a letter in or no you will not get one. al OK mate thanks, just to verify, i had a 17hmr , 22/250 and another shotgun which i told them i was going to use on new land. this had just been surveyed[ i checked this out with FLO] and the land details were submitted on my application form. SORRY for borrowing this thread, but some very useful advice, thanks again, gram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) OK mate thanks, just to verify, i had a 17hmr , 22/250 and another shotgun which i told them i was going to use on new land.this had just been surveyed[ i checked this out with FLO] and the land details were submitted on my application form. SORRY for borrowing this thread, but some very useful advice, thanks again, gram. your welcome,but,i`m no expert and can only give some advice but,if in doubt always ask your own feo.. like i say,it depends..you may have loads of land,close to each other,so why would you need an open ticket...a guy has one piece of land and gets plenty of offers to shoot other land..? which of the 2 is better for open ticket? see what i mean by circumstances.. the thing is.ASK.nothing losed and plenty to gain.by also some people think open ticket is for all your guns but,you can get open on say fac air or your rimfires or both ,,called some a semi open ticket. al Edited December 6, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) and the land details were submitted on my application form. . nearly missed this bit...as you have put the place on your application,they may have rang the land owner to confirm you have permission and accepted this,rather than a letter of permission and as it is on your application,it is as good as written permission letter. so your clear then or the fac department would have asked you for a permission letter copy.,as mine did al Edited December 6, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redthunder Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 hence me saying close to you..meaning shooting with you and not on his own.. Hi He's closed ticket but i think he's ok with me cos im open written permission has to be sent to our local fac department(closed ticket),as they will not entertain verbal or no permission letter..hence my written permission words and this can vary by area comment.so i`m covering my area and his. i agree with your other comments. al ps..redthunder,is your mate closed or open ticket?..easier if he is open and no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redthunder Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi He's closed ticket but i think he's ok with me cos im open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 this farm is passed for .243 If the farm is passed up to 243, What's the problem ? BJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redthunder Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 If the farm is passed up to 243, What's the problem ? BJ. Hi Bazooka Joe, Ive asked my mate does he want to come and shoot some rabbits with HIS 17HMR on one of my permissions but he hasn't got an open ticket but i have he said he's got to have written perm to come with me i thought because im open it would be ok as long as im with him ?:good:???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallysmarksrn Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 just got another permmision. rang my feo today, to ask if land was cleared for a 17hmr. got email, to say land cleared for 22lr. rang back to ask about the 17hmr, to be told, if land cleared for 22lr,it's cleared for 17 hmr. i do not have an open ticket,if i have the owners permmision, carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi Bazooka Joe, Ive asked my mate does he want to come and shoot some rabbits with HIS 17HMR on one of my permissions but he hasn't got an open ticket but i have he said he's got to have written perm to come with me i thought because im open it would be ok as long as im with him ???:good:?? It does not matter if your ticket is open or closed, the land is passed for 243 so your mate is fine as long as he has the owners permission, this does not have to be in writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) apparently if your mate as a closed ticket,he cannot shoot on your land even though it s been cleared for bigger calibres,different forces dont allow it some do,your best bet would be to ring bridgend and ask if its ok,or take someone who has open ticket with rifles you need for job that needs doing.theres a fine line when it comes to where you can shoot with a closed ticket,always better to check with police first,or take the risk p.s obviously if your farm give s him permission,things change. Edited December 8, 2009 by codling99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Hi He's closed ticket but i think he's ok with me cos im open i agree with codling but,i have shot with an open ticket holder on his shoot using his gun/s only and near his side.i`m closed ticket. does that help? al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 The standard (land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police…) condition is applied as a form of risk management by police. The Home Office guidance 2002 says that once the certificate holder has demonstrated competence he may have the condition amended to become what is known as the less restrictive or ‘open’ condition. The Guidance further says that there is no set time for this and each case must be considered on its own merits. To obtain an open certificate you will have to make an application in writing to the firearms licensing department who will look at it, some forces refuse to grant them within the first two three or five years. Some forces refuse on the basis that they want to check all land under the guise of public safety to ensure that all shooting in their county is 100% safe! Regardless of the merits of the open certificate and the workload they would save in not having to check every bit of land. Unfortunately the police feel that the more they restrict these conditions and the more they check land, the less overall risk they have amongst certificate holders. No land is intrinsically safe or unsafe and BASC continues to lobby for change with condition and to abolish land checks. It is the calibre of the person not the calibre of the land or firearm that should be concentrated upon. Once an open certificate is granted it allows the holder to shoot anywhere they wish to long as they assess that each shot is safe, even on land that has previously been deemed unsuitable. The certificate holder must also have the appropriate landowner’s permission and comply with the remaining part of the open condition and any other relevant conditions on the certificate. However one piece of land is still required at each renewal in order for the certificate to be renewed. If that land is subsequently deemed unsuitable, you will have to find another for your renewal to be successful, but once you have found a piece of police approved safe land and you get your renewal, you can still shoot on land that has been deemed unsuitable. For a person without the less restrictive condition, (a ‘closed ticket’ ) you can still shoot on other land that is not listed on your ticket but it would be an offence to shoot over land that has not been deemed suitable by the local licensing team. But by the same token if the land has been passed to be suitable for that calibre then no offence is committed. However, and this is the very important bit, the onus is on you, the closed certificate holder, going onto new land to check that the land HAS been cleared for that calibre. If there is any doubt at all call the licensing department and ask. As for permission in writing, we recommend that a person obtains it in writing for their own records in any case. Verbal permission is all that is needed in law, but this can be argued if something went wrong. It is a police edict RE: letters, they say that they cannot process the application otherwise. To phone a landowner seems to be the hardest thing in the world for them to do and every excuse has been given, however they simply say “if you want a certificate you have to furnish us with the relevant paperwork” and not to do so is taken to be suspicious or must mean that the permission is dodgy! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redthunder Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 apparently if your mate as a closed ticket,he cannot shoot on your land even though it s been cleared for bigger calibres,different forces dont allow it some do,your best bet would be to ring bridgend and ask if its ok,or take someone who has open ticket with rifles you need for job that needs doing.theres a fine line when it comes to where you can shoot with a closed ticket,always better to check with police first,or take the risk p.s obviously if your farm give s him permission,things change. Hi codling99 ive got the right rifles for the job a .243 and other guns on an open ticket for fox and for deer shooting, the farm im on about is passed for .243 so no prob. What i mean is ive offered a mate a night out lamping with me on this farm so he can shoot some rabbits with his 17hmr but because he's not open is he still covered to shoot with me under my open ticket??:good:?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) check his ticket, if his conditions read the usual cleared by chief of police with permission etc just tell him to stop being a pansy and shoot. assuming the landowner has given you the ok to take a guest its fine he doesn't need written permission and really there is no relevance of you having a slot for HMR as he is legit, the only time you might want to take him under your ticket would be if the land wasn't cleared Edited December 9, 2009 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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