David BASC Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Just because he is on a 'closed' ticket does not stop him from shooting on that land if: it has been passes for 17hmr he has permission from the farmer If the land has already been cleared for 243, then it is also cleared thus for 17hmr - so all your mate needs is the OK from the farmer and he can shoot his 17hmr on that land Just becasue you have an open ticket does not mean he can shoot under your open ticket. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooter Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I added a line on my permission letter which says, "The Landowner agrees to let the above named person and his/her partners ‘control by shooting’ " That covers me and anybody with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redthunder Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) check his ticket, if his conditions read the usual cleared by chief of police with permission etc just tell him to stop being a pansy and shoot. assuming the landowner has given you the ok to take a guest its fine he doesn't need written permission and really there is no relevance of you having a slot for HMR as he is legit, the only time you might want to take him under your ticket would be if the land wasn't cleared He's a bit scared i think everyone is in the first year or two i went a few times to unpassed farms after a couple of years never had no bother i new what a safe shot was and you can judge ground thats safe or not some of the feo's have passed farms for a .243 and i wouldn't even use a rimfire on some of these feo's haven't a clue. they passed a farm for my mate he wanted to use his 17hmr for rabbits it right next to an international airport and they passed it for .243 its as flat as a witches ***. :unsure:. Edited December 9, 2009 by redthunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) e. For a person without the less restrictive condition, (a ‘closed ticket’ ) you can still shoot on other land that is not listed on your ticket but it would be an offence to shoot over land that has not been deemed suitable by the local licensing team. But by the same token if the land has been passed to be suitable for that calibre then no offence is committed. However, and this is the very important bit, the onus is on you, the closed certificate holder, going onto new land to check that the land HAS been cleared for that calibre. If there is any doubt at all call the licensing department and ask. “if you want a certificate you have to furnish us with the relevant paperwork” and not to do so is taken to be suspicious or must mean that the permission is dodgy! David interesting reading that david and it also answered a question i could not get answer to. He's a bit scared i think everyone is in the first year or two i went a few times to unpassed farms after a couple of years never had no bother i new what a safe shot was and you can judge ground thats safe or not some of the feo's have passed farms for a .243 and i wouldn't even use a rimfire on some of these feo's haven't a clue. they passed a farm for my mate he wanted to use his 17hmr for rabbits it right next to an international airport and they passed it for .243 its as flat as a witches ***. :unsure:. thats the thing,nothing wrong in doubting something and asking,lot safer and 1st time ticket holders do worry about losing their fac. seems like your mate can shoot after all.. al Edited December 9, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 hence me saying close to you..meaning shooting with you and not on his own.. written permission has to be sent to our local fac department(closed ticket),as they will not entertain verbal or no permission letter..hence my written permission words and this can vary by area comment.so i`m covering my area and his. i agree with your other comments. :unsure: al ps..redthunder,is your mate closed or open ticket?..easier if he is open and no problem. written permission has to be sent to our local fac department(closed ticket),as they will not entertain verbal or no permission letter..hence my written permission words and this can vary by area comment.so i`m covering my area and his. Maybe they did send written confirmation afterall then, i havent got a letter from the land owner tho, can i get in bother for this then? sorry to go off thread a bit here, but, how hard is it to get an open ticket? Just because he is on a 'closed' ticket does not stop him from shooting on that land if: it has been passes for 17hmr he has permission from the farmer If the land has already been cleared for 243, then it is also cleared thus for 17hmr - so all your mate needs is the OK from the farmer and he can shoot his 17hmr on that land Just becasue you have an open ticket does not mean he can shoot under your open ticket. David Amen at last..... David has spoken the truth from the book. I am sick to death on hearing on here you cannot shoot here or there just because you are on a closed ticket..... Witten permission....Get if you can but a phone works as well. For the record, A closed certificate holder can shoot land that has been surveyed if he has the authority to shoot from the landowner...Full stop. If it was the way some of you are going on here people would never be able to move with an FAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 If it was the way some of you are going on here people would never be able to move with an FAC. Aint that the truth, but you cant tell sum un um. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Just because he is on a 'closed' ticket does not stop him from shooting on that land if: it has been passes for 17hmr he has permission from the farmer If the land has already been cleared for 243, then it is also cleared thus for 17hmr - so all your mate needs is the OK from the farmer and he can shoot his 17hmr on that land Thanks for the clarification DB, couldn't understand what all the fuss was about BJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 If it was the way some of you are going on here people would never be able to move with an FAC. the law is not always clear,as they are different for each circumstance and area you are in makes a difference. easy to loose your ticket quicker than you got it,if your want to shoot without first checking and end up in the poo and lose your fac. give some a break as the law is not always easy to understand and if it was,we would not need basc or people on here to turn to for advice and the variation in answers tell us it ain`t always cut and dry. al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 The law is VERY clear! Any Police team that says otherwise is wrong, plain and simple. Police CANNOT make the laws! The only grey area comes with knowledge about which land is checked. Typically, since the onus is on the closed certificate holder to verify the land is cleared, this must involve the Police. However, in certain circumstances, like this, where someone KNOWS the land is passed for a calibre because it was passed FOR THEM, then the knowledge is first hand and solid, and no further verification is needed. This assumes the FAC condition is the standard one, and with this being the case, the law's the law, and if the police grumble then they can be politely informed that all necessary provisions have been taken and no offence has been committed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 He's a bit scared i think everyone is in the first year or two i went a few times to unpassed farms after a couple of years never had no bother i new what a safe shot was and you can judge ground thats safe or not some of the feo's have passed farms for a .243 and i wouldn't even use a rimfire on some of these feo's haven't a clue. they passed a farm for my mate he wanted to use his 17hmr for rabbits it right next to an international airport and they passed it for .243 its as flat as a witches ***. :(. ok in that case you don't make the law and have broken it in the past which is your choice. Either this land is cleared or it isn't, if it is cleared and you have permission to take a guest its fine. If its not cleared then your mate is making the right decision as the rifle is on his ticket and he is using it so has to adhere to his conditions not yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 The law is VERY clear! Any Police team that says otherwise is wrong, plain and simple. Police CANNOT make the laws! if that is the case,then why is their so many threads about firarm laws?..clear to you but,not to others it seems. al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Ah..welcome to our world in the BASC firearms team! The law is clear - it is writing in black and white in the Firearms Act But then add to that the Home Office Guidance on firearms licensing…and then add to that ACPO Best Practice advice…and then add to that how some seem to want to interpret the HO guidance or the ACPO BP in slightly different ways at the FLO / FLD level….and that’s why it can get so confusing sometimes. BUT issues about who can shoot over land with what calibre are, thankfully’ pretty clear…I think :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Ah..welcome to our world in the BASC firearms team! The law is clear - it is writing in black and white in the Firearms Act But then add to that the Home Office Guidance on firearms licensing…and then add to that ACPO Best Practice advice…and then add to that how some seem to want to interpret the HO guidance or the ACPO BP in slightly different ways at the FLO / FLD level….and that’s why it can get so confusing sometimes. BUT issues about who can shoot over land with what calibre are, thankfully’ pretty clear…I think :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 do many people get pulled breaking conditions David? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 the only stories ive heard with licences being revoked is for disorderly conduct[ scrapping, drink&drugs] that sort of thing, most people with facs seem to have a bit of sense so dont go upsetting the land owners or their neighbours. the only way you'd get caught is if you draw attention to yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 the only stories ive heard with licences being revoked is for disorderly conduct[ scrapping, drink&drugs] that sort of thing, most people with facs seem to have a bit of sense so dont go upsetting the land owners or their neighbours. the only way you'd get caught is if you draw attention to yourself. It comes in fits and starts, in a 10 mile radius of me there has been in the last month four revocations for matters related to shooting itself rather rather than the actions of the individuals themselves outside of shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redthunder Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Some good reading guy's keep it coming ive opened a can of worms i think :look: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Ah..welcome to our world in the BASC firearms team! The law is clear - it is writing in black and white in the Firearms Act But then add to that the Home Office Guidance on firearms licensing…and then add to that ACPO Best Practice advice…and then add to that how some seem to want to interpret the HO guidance or the ACPO BP in slightly different ways at the FLO / FLD level….and that’s why it can get so confusing sometimes. BUT issues about who can shoot over land with what calibre are, thankfully’ pretty clear…I think i think that is what gets me more confused than anything david...variation in area to area..even you must have to look up things if your unsure and then may need a second opinion to help in the interpretation of it.... as for the land clearance bit,,that is still not clear..as i have said in other posts on this interesting thread,,it is not all clear cut..especially the land part,some have said no permission letter is needed but,it is needed here..that is only part of the things that fac holders can come across and so the debate goes on and things are different and not difinate enough to be understood across the board..as said before by other shooters,no singing from the same sheet. Some good reading guy's keep it coming ive opened a can of worms i think :look: you have and it is all your fault.. it is good to debate and see how things work in other areas and learn how things are done.nothing wrong in opinions. i hope i have not offended anyone by my difference in opinions,as they needed to be put across to see if i could be educated or others can learn by what we put here. i have learned something and i`m glad this thread has helped me . atb al Edited December 11, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Al4x, not very many get revoked for breaking conditions because not many get caught doing it! But if you do then you are all but guarnateed to get revoked. So, as I ma sure all on here would agree, it's not worth taking the risk Albob, yes I agree there is incosistancy, as I say the law may be clear but how it is rolled out at FLD or FLO level is another matter sometimes, that is why BASC have been actively involved with the HO and ACPO in the re-write of the guidance and best practice. Lets hope to see this in 2010 In law you do not need written permission, but frankly it is much safer so to do. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 I wasn't meaning I did break conditions David but was just curious :look: What I find interesting is all the discussions that go on on the internet that pretty much educates shooters to what the can and can't do and brews up storms in lots of tea cups people without access who just shoot having read and interpreted their conditions can be very much in the dark. One thing that is for sure is that the licensing sysyem is in such a mess that I think they are having trouble working that out without getting near personal interpretation of conditions it would be so much easier if they were written in English rather than in a legal way that leads to interpretation one way or another. Just one sign of how good it is round us is I signed a gun onto my ticket for a family member before his shotgun ticket lapsed and we both informed police, he was moving house and having a baby so didn't apply again for 18 months, after that 18 month period he had the meeting ok with a different county who had no knowledge he had had a ticket in the past, the girl went off and rang back to say what happened to the two guns he had One had been sold 3 years before and the other was the one on my ticket. Gets better having said he just wanted the ticket to borrow a gun from me on driven days with no storage facilities in place the ticket arrived back with the gun I signed on written on it Its a joke the whole system yet a common sense approach could surely make a countrywide system that applied the same rules and ones people could understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Albob, yes I agree there is incosistancy, as I say the law may be clear but how it is rolled out at FLD or FLO level is another matter sometimes, that is why BASC have been actively involved with the HO and ACPO in the re-write of the guidance and best practice. Lets hope to see this in 2010 David that would be good to see and hope it comes to fruition Its a joke the whole system yet a common sense approach could surely make a countrywide system that applied the same rules and ones people could understand that would be nice if it happened more often al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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