TonySmith Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Anyone got first hand knowledge of the actual sanctions imposed on a company employing an illegal (not just what is possible but what is actually being dished out)? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7383493.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonySmith Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Some interesting replies in the thread, I too have no problems with I.D. cards, as long as there are used for just that, and my data is kept secure (tic).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) As well as 6th form I work in a supermarket. We have a 'think 25' policy where if the cashier and/or supervisor does not think the customer looks over 25 years of age then proof of identification will be required to purchase an age restricted product. I can confirm that a SGC/FAC is not an acceptable form of identification as I asked during my training. If shops get caught selling age restricted products to underage customers then it opens up a whole world of problems for the shop and the cashier who authorised the purchase. Not only can the shop loose (lose) their licence to deal in such products (a supermarket not being able to sell alcohol over the Christmas period is a major blow) but the person who sold it will be dragged up in front of the courts without a leg to stand on and will receive a criminal record. FM If this is the case, then RFDs are breaking the law selling you any type of shotgun or firearm/ammunition!!!!!! Edited December 10, 2009 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 If you dont have valid ID on you then you can be arrested for failing to provide a suitable name and address for the purpose of summons, end of. Can you clarify this? Are you saying that a police officer can stop me on a whim and arrest me merely for the crime of not carrying any id ? I find that difficult to believe. If it true though I will certainly apply for a new passport. One for a different country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 I was a few months ago asked to provide id at a supermarket checkout when buying alcohol. I am 43, by the way. I gave her a very hard Paddington stare and was tempted to kick up a fuss but as I was in a hurry and had my SGC in my back pocket I showed her that...and she said "Oh, sorry officer, you know I have to ask, though" I guess all she saw was my photo and THAMES VALLEY POLICE" in big letters. Perhaps I should have arrested her for "jobsworthiness with extreme stupidity" but no doubt I would have been accused of racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Currently if you are e.g. suspected of committing, about to commit an offence..... and you fail to provide suitable details for a summons then you can be arrested under Section 24 of the Police & Criminal Evidence Act...... This was in my experience used more so with traffic offences than in any other area, but it still applies. Funny what you say about the ID for booze. I spent 5 months in Arizona in 2007 and it made my girlfriend laugh everytime they asked me for ID being 31 at the time. But regardless of age they have a good system in that they ID everyone for alcohol over there. However if you are in a group at the checkout, they will ID everyone in the group and if you have someone under 21 with you, they will refuse to serve you. But that is probably for a different thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 > Currently if you are e.g. suspected of committing, about to commit an offence..... and you fail to provide suitable details for a summons So the offence is giving an incorrect name and address, not a lack of ID. If you make it compulsory to carry ID you'll end up criminalising a lot of ordinary people who've rushed out of the house with the wrong coat etc. I can see it would make the job of the police easier but this isn't a good enough reason IMHO. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) No it's failing to prove who you are and/or where you live for the purpose of a summons. But if there was a national system....which has already been bought by DVLA, then there would also be a way of checking that, much like is already done with driver licence checks, again reducing wasted time for everyone. That is unless you are a driver of a motor vehicle, who can be stopped purely for the purpose of establishing the identity of the driver......fail to divulge and its a one way ticket. IMHO, nothing to hide, nothing to fear Edited December 11, 2009 by Skippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 IMHO, nothing to hide, nothing to fear Popcorn and Coke at the ready......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covlocks Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 If your an employer, you should have a copy of passports, this is for if/when your inspected by HMRC/Police Highly incorrect - not everyone has a passport - in fact more than than 50% of UK citizens do not - and it is only the responsibility of the employer to ensure that the employee has a right to work here. If the employee has a NI number - job done. If it true though I will certainly apply for a new passport. One for a different country I would like to see that one - you need to be a citizen of that county first - not as easy as going there on holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Popcorn and Coke at the ready......... Well i have to say i do share Skippys' sentiments. Normally i would say that i dont like this big brother world we now live in and this is taking away our freedom *insert standard anti ID argument here* However in reality, the days when you could trust people in this country are sadly gone. If a crime is committed then there is a need to correctly identify the person/s involved, and i (as someone that wont be committing these crimes) have absolutely no issue with this. Infact i stand to gain, if people can be prevented from committing crimes under false id's. It is perhaps the lesser of two evils and what has to be done to prevent the scum in society getting away with crimes. Times change, we just have to get on with it unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 If you dont have valid ID on you then you can be arrested for failing to provide a suitable name and address for the purpose of summons, end of. Having watched a few of the recent border patrol programs on the box, it would appear this is not the case for illegal immigrants, if they don't have id they are pampered and cosseted all the way, strange that eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 covlocks Highly incorrect - not everyone has a passport - in fact more than than 50% of UK citizens do not - and it is only the responsibility of the employer to ensure that the employee has a right to work here. If the employee has a NI number - job done. Sorry - totally wrong. Possession of a NI Number counts for nothing. Sadly workers hi-jack other people's numbers or buy National Insurance Cards. The going rate is £50. The employer has to satisfy themselves that the worker has the right to work and having an NI number isn't a defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) HAHA!!!!! I once arrested someone when he thought he was walking away from court...... He had been an overstayer for six years, three failed appeal attempts and now a wife and two kids in the UK. Couldn't drive though, he potted a teenager on a red traffic light and put his 4x4 on its roof on the A27, which is how i came to know him. Anyhow, i phone Imigration in Croydon and told them i had him in custody. They told me they had nobody available to come and deal with him, it's difficult to deport people to Libya and would i mind bailing him......Hell yes, they had lost contact with him since 2000! he was released! no further action. The system really is **** in those circumstances! Edited December 11, 2009 by Skippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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