ferretmanabu Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 I bought a nice condition Midland 308 a coupel of months ago and have been using Partizan ammo in it since, which has been producing acceptable accuracy for stalking up to 100 yards. However, I recently got my reloading set up sorted with a Lee classic cast press and dies. Rustled up some .308 loads using 150gr Speer soft point, 43gr H4895 and Federal primers. This was my three shot group after I had it zeroed in. Probably not as impressive as many guys on here can get but I'm quite chuffed with these being my first 308 loads and I think it's safe to say my partizan days are over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 That doesn't look too bad at all, well done. Try adjusting the OAL a little and see if you can squeeze them in a bit. Once you've found the ideal length then have a go at working up the powder charge too (I don't know what weight range you should be working with and assume as a first this is quite low?) and see what that does. Before you go up near maximum learn to recognise signs of pressure so you don't over do it. If you need a hand just ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretmanabu Posted December 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 That doesn't look too bad at all, well done. Try adjusting the OAL a little and see if you can squeeze them in a bit. Once you've found the ideal length then have a go at working up the powder charge too (I don't know what weight range you should be working with and assume as a first this is quite low?) and see what that does. Before you go up near maximum learn to recognise signs of pressure so you don't over do it. If you need a hand just ask Thanks Neil. Maxium load for that powder/bullet combination is 45.5 so I've stayed well under it. I will be tweaking things in the future but limited with time at the moment. The length is about .1 inch less than the maximum overall length in the manuals so I've got plenty to play with there as well. How's that combi gun doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Have you worked out what your max OAL is in your chamber to get a maximum OAL? .1 under is quite a lot, you need to be very careful working up if you're that much shorter than Minimum OAL in the book. The combi gun is going well. I got a reasonable group at 50 yards the other day and I think I can use the iron sights up to about 75 yards on Deer for now. I'll probably improve on that when I've used it more but I've only fired 7 shots so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretmanabu Posted December 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Have you worked out what your max OAL is in your chamber to get a maximum OAL? .1 under is quite a lot, you need to be very careful working up if you're that much shorter than Minimum OAL in the book. The combi gun is going well. I got a reasonable group at 50 yards the other day and I think I can use the iron sights up to about 75 yards on Deer for now. I'll probably improve on that when I've used it more but I've only fired 7 shots so far. I'm working .1 inch less than the maximum (not minimum) OAL in the manual. It is basically about the same length as the factory PRVI cartridge that I used previously. Can you get one of those quick release scopes to put on your combi? I shot another roe a few days ago, will be putting a post up in picture section soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 I've never heard of maximum overall length? The round can be as long as you like as long as it fits the rifle it's being fired from. Shortening is the problem because it can raise pressure due to the reduced case capacity. If your reloading book states it then it must be right and I've just never stumbled across it. It's probably a guide to make sure that the loads will fit all standard chambered rifles without being too long. I can get a QD mount to scope the combi. I'm getting a 1.5-5x5 Simmons WTC scope to go on it and that's the system I plan to use. If I expect to need to take longer shots and not use the shotgun barrel without notice I can fit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggone Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) I've never heard of maximum overall length? The round can be as long as you like as long as it fits the rifle it's being fired from. Shortening is the problem because it can raise pressure due to the reduced case capacity. If your reloading book states it then it must be right and I've just never stumbled across it. It's probably a guide to make sure that the loads will fit all standard chambered rifles without being too long. I can get a QD mount to scope the combi. I'm getting a 1.5-5x5 Simmons WTC scope to go on it and that's the system I plan to use. If I expect to need to take longer shots and not use the shotgun barrel without notice I can fit it. All loading manuals give maximum overall length not minimum overall length. Well all my manuals do anyway. Andy Edit as you say it's to make sure they fit all magazines and chambers, from memory I think my 22/250 loads are .1'' above maximum c.o.l for the ogive to be ten thou off the lands. Edited December 26, 2009 by Doggone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretmanabu Posted December 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 All loading manuals give maximum overall length not minimum overall length. Well all my manuals do anyway.Andy This is my understanding of it too. The factory ammo I have bought is also shorter than the 2.8" recommended for the .308, which I presume is so that they stay well within SAAMI spec and the rounds fit all magazines. I thought the increased pressure occurred as rounds increase in length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggone Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) This is my understanding of it too. The factory ammo I have bought is also shorter than the 2.8" recommended for the .308, which I presume is so that they stay well within SAAMI spec and the rounds fit all magazines. I thought the increased pressure occurred as rounds increase in length. Probably the biggest increase in pressure (without increasing powder) is caused by having the bullet tight on the lands. Measure your cartridge overall length by chambering an empty (of powder) case which is necksized to the extent that the bullet is a fairly good sliding fit. Chamber the round, the bullet will be pushed into the case by the lands, then deduct 10 thou from the overall length. The overall length will be different for different shapes of bullets, so you have to measure when using a new batch of the same bullet or a different bullet. Check that your finished bullet is not touching the lands by coating the bullet with a felt tip or engineers blue which will show you the marks of the lands if something has gone wrong. Andy Edited December 26, 2009 by Doggone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretmanabu Posted December 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Probably the biggest increase in pressure (without increasing powder) is caused by having the bullet tight on the lands.Measure your cartridge overall length by chambering an empty (of powder) case which is necksized to the extent that the bullet is a fairly good sliding fit. Chamber the round, the bullet will be pushed into the case by the lands, then deduct 10 thou from the overall length. The overall length will be different for different shapes of bullets, so you have to measure when using a new batch of the same bullet or a different bullet. Check that your finished bullet is not touching the lands by coating the bullet with a felt tip or engineers blue which will show you the marks of the lands if something has gone wrong. Andy I bought a load of powder and bullets off Aftab in Reloading Solutions, Oxford and had a similar discussion about length of cartridge. He's offered to use his Stoney point gauges on my rifles if I take them down with me next time I'm there which makes life a lot easier. To be honest though, with the accuracy I'm now getting off these loads, I have no problems with shooting at deer up to 100 yards away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanF Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Abu, With that sort of accuracy, you will have no problem shooting deer at 300yds! Whether you ever need to is a very different matter! Enjoy your stalking - get close, that's where the fun is. Rgds Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 As Ian said you'll have no problem hitting the spot on a Deer with that kind of grouping. People often worry too much about getting bullet on bullet accuracy from a stalking rifle when it's not needed. I just looked in my reloading book and it states minimum OAL but there is no mention of a maximum in the data. I always thought that when reloading you get your chamber measured and then work to 5 or more thou off of the lands to find the accuracy? Having only read the Lee book perhaps they don't think it's important? Do most manuals state both min and max? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 How much H4895 did you get from him (i.e. do you think there's any left?!)? I need a boat-load for my new Tikka since it's giving me 2850 with a 155 Scenar for target shooting, and I want to try the 125 gr Nosler as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretmanabu Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I think he had a tub left and some more on order too. It's from Alastair at Gloucestershire Gun Company in Cirencester though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 FWIW... I always told, going "over" max COL a tad, was safer than being "under" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggone Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 To clear up any misconceptions about Cartridge overall length, this link explains it all quite well, if you can stick with it to the end. http://www.realguns.com/archives/093.htm Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 That was an interesting read, thanks. I think I want one of those comparators as what they say about the lenght of bullets verying is very true. Measuring the part of the bullet that really matters makes sense and I doubt those things cost a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfisherman Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) Does anyone know on here how to get the round to fit your chamber perfectly? Im talking about the bullet seating etc, Ive been told on several occasions that the round should be just touching the rifling or ever so slightly off it. This way, you get a constant 'push' from a constant point? Again, i understand that this isnt necessary for deer stalking in general terms but i like tinkering. I did try it with my .223, by making up an inert round, covering the bullet with soot from a candle, then chambering the round, although i didnt really find this successful as the soot was scratched off when chambering and ejecting the round. Ive always reloaded, been very happy with the results compared to factory ammo. Im just getting through my PRVI that i got free with the rifle, once i do, i shall be loading some of my own for the .308! Edited March 22, 2010 by flyingfisherman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 To measure the chamber Neck size a fired case, split the neck on one side only using a junior hack saw blade, split it down to where the neck just meets the shoulder, de burr the split, push a bullet into the neck (not to far) and slowly chamber, the lands will push the bullet in further, withdraw making sure not to drop it or knock it around, then measure using a comparator or another neck sized case (bit of a fiddle but works, always use the same case mark it up), repeat several times, change the bullet a few times, each measurement should be almost identical, write them down and average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Going over has two implications. one is whether it will fit in the mag which is self expainatory. The other is whether the bullet is touching the rifling. In an ideal world you want it very close but not actually touching the rifling. This increases the "start" pressure before the bullet starts to move. The trick with a felt tip marker pen is a good one. Don't let the bullet actually touch. Match rifle shooters use it but in a very controlled way and it can raise pressure quite a lot so its best to avoid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 try a stoney point aol gauge with a modified case to get the correct length ,bullet comparaters are not that expensive about £18 & about £4 each for each bushing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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