.17 remington fireball

[CharlieT]

Reports suggest that the FB does not suffer the same cleaning and barrel life problems that the 17 Rem suffers from, which is a huge plus for the FB however every 17 rem user I have spoken to swears by theirs.

 

Take a look at say the Remington ballistic calculator and compare the .204R with the 17 FB. Might help you decide which to go for. I would suggest that up to 200/250 yds they are comparable. It's only over 250 yds that the 204 would be a must.

[macca]

Hi

As it is very difficult to have suppressed firearms out here, noise is definitely an issue. The 204 is a great calibre but it is extremely loud compared to the fireball. The 17 ack hornet is also a great round but has the issue that it headspaces on the rim and the shoulder, hence if your chamber dimensions are slightly longer then your dies case stretching and headspace separation can be an issue. Using moly bullets, I can go 250 rounds before I need to clean (not that I do it)

Cheers

[SSS]

Macca, I take it you own a .17. If so, which one? .17 AH, .17 rem, .17 Fireball.

Which one would you recommend?

I dont have the trouble of sound moderators so whatever I decide, it will have a moderator on the business end

[macca]

Hi SSS,

actually I own two 17 calibre firearms - a kimber 17MKII (normal 22 rimfire cartridge necked to 17. Shoots a 17 grain projectile at 2050fps - small brother to the 17HMR). I have a 17MK IV (sako heavy barrel A1 with an 8X56 kahales on top). Remington commercialized the MK IV and called it the 17 rem fireball. It is made by necking down the 221 fireball pistol case. There is a slight difference between the two in case shape but ballistically they are identical. A friend of mine has one and has chronyed 20gn balistic tips at 4200fps using vitavohri powder. I use benchmark with 25 gn hornady hollow points for 3800+ fps. I use moly bullets and dont have any cleaning issues. I like and recommend the MK IV/fireball - the 17Ack hornet has brass and headspace issues, the 17 rem, 7 grains more powder and a lot more noise for no increase in performance. The fireball lookes like a scaled down benchrest case. I can post pics of rifles and cases if you wish. As an afterthought I can say the fireball kills far above its weight.

Cheers

Edited February 9, 2010 by macca

[6br]

Hi SSS had a .17 rem for over 10 years and it's been good shoots ,20gr v-max 4400 fps, 25gr bergers over 4000 fps, 30gr bergers 3900 fps, shot lots of vermin and foxes over 250 yards very accurate some groups shot sub 1/4 at 100 yards flat as a pancake out to 300 yards no recoil moderates well it might be what your looking for, had a lot of different calibres over the years .17/.222/.223/.22,250/6ppc/6br/.243 my choice would be 6mmbr and .243 only because some of the areas I shoot are very large open, if you are only going to shoot up to 250/300 yards .17/.222/.223/ will get the job done.

[casts_by_fly]

Hi SSS,

actually I own two 17 calibre firearms - a kimber 17MKII (normal 22 rimfire cartridge necked to 17. Shoots a 17 grain projectile at 2050fps - small brother to the 17HMR). I have a 17MK IV (sako heavy barrel A1 with an 8X56 kahales on top). Remington commercialized the MK IV and called it the 17 rem fireball. It is made by necking down the 221 fireball pistol case. There is a slight difference between the two in case shape but ballistically they are identical. A friend of mine has one and has chronyed 20gn balistic tips at 4200fps using vitavohri powder. I use benchmark with 25 gn hornady hollow points for 3800+ fps. I use moly bullets and dont have any cleaning issues. I like and recommend the MK IV/fireball - the 17Ack hornet has brass and headspace issues, the 17 rem, 7 grains more powder and a lot more noise for no increase in performance. The fireball lookes like a scaled down benchrest case. I can post pics of rifles and cases if you wish. As an afterthought I can say the fireball kills far above its weight.

Cheers

 

 

I'll ditto that with one correction. The AH doesn't headspace on the rim. You headspace on the shoulder because the brass is sized to fit your chamber and dies are adjusted to match. The bigger issue is that hornet brass in general is thinner and you have to be a bit more careful with it. If your dies overwork the brass (i.e. your chamber and dies don't match well enough) then you'll get reduced life.

 

That said, if you are going to put a moderator on the gun, get the fireball over the AH. Both will have negligible recoil and the same report through a moderator (none really). The fireball is a factory round with standard dies and factory rifles. The AH requires custom dies and a gunsmith to chamber a new barrel to a donor action. The Fireball will handle 25 or 30 gr bullets better if you want them, while the AH really does best with 20's.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[inthedark]

Been to Steve Kershaws today and he's just taken a .17 FB in part ex. If you want one he will give a straight up honest deal.

[SSS]

So the fireball over the others.

I phoned my FLO today and he said, keep the .223 authority and get variation for the .17 CF aswell.

Seems like the right thing to do, although I may swap the .223 for .204 and get .17 aswell.

The reason I am choosing the .204 over the .223 is because it has better ballistics and is much flatter, although does struggle to keep up with the .223 past 300 yards. To be honest, I dont think I will be shooting over 300 so it shouldnt be an issue.

Thanks for the replies

[Rem223]

Small calibres are addictive! When I rebarrel my 17 Remington I will more than likely swap the barrel for the 17 Fireball. The Fireball is a very efficient round and barrel life I suspect will be far better than something like a 22-250 or a Swift. You will realistically want to reload though. I doubt if you will get much change out of £25 for twenty factory rounds. When I started shooting the 17 Remington I soon gave up on factory stuff. Get yourself a good set of dies a pound of N130 and a box of 25gr Hornady Vmax (if you can find them) not the hollowpoints, and you will be in business. You will need a small funnel though. RCBS do one for around £5 I think.

 

Not sure I would worry about the .204 over the .223. It does have a flatter trajectory but how often are you likely to shoot over 250yds? I zero my .223 at 200yds and it is easy enough to compensate for 300yd shots.

[SSS]

I see your point.

I will be reloading as soon as I get the kit and the rifle.

I have decide, the fireball is a better option, slightly slower but much more efficient.

I can get 25 grain v-max bullets in my local RFD, so that wont be a problem.

 

What recipe do you use to reload for the fireball Rem223, and what results does it give you?

[macca]

Hi,

I use the 25 hornady hollow points, has more penetration on bigger stuff than the A max. I use benchrest primers and 18.5 grains of benchmark powder. On a good day it will give sub 1/2 inch 5 shot groups. I form my brass from 221 fireball pistol brass, RCBS make dies and if you have access to an outside neck turner you can make a 100 cases in an evening.

Cheers

[Alycidon]

I was also looking at a 17 Fireball as an ultra light short barrelled walking rifle, it will do all you want of it on foxes to 250 yards when fed VMaxs etc. The reason you dont see many is that its a relativly new factory caliber, its wildcat predecessor the 17Mach4 has been around for years but wanted reloading. Think though that the 20 version (20 Vartarg) is better, more downrange clout, just not a mainstream caliber although Cooper offer it.

 

Personally I would steer well clear of 22.250 and 220 Swift, bloody great bang, never see the impact as the recoil lifts the barrel but in fairness they are really good killers. Not normally quite as accurate as .222/.223 though but perfectly good enough. .243 is a very versatile round and loaded with a factory 70 grain NBT is a great fox stopper good for double your range limit but you will need deer as a condition.

 

Your 223 will be perfectly good for what you say you need it for, if you want a bit less drop and less drift as well then go TAC20, this is the same case necked down to .204 caliber. Generally considered slightly superior to 204 ruger due to its longer neck. You would need to reload though and TAC 20 is not yet a mainstream caliber but I am sure it soon will be. Under 300 yards though there will be very little difference between these 20s, your 223 and the 17 Fireball.

 

Buy a decent 223 and use it, I am sure that from what you say and the sub 200 yard foxes it will be perfectly acceptable. Just put a good scope on it, no need to go big but do go as far up the quality ladder as your budget allows. Used good quality optics are perfectly acceptable and far cheaper, a far better buy than a new scope of a lesser quality.

 

Couple of suitable S&Bs here, bottom two, http://www.yorkguns.com/optic_search_results.php

 

The ex demo S&B 7x50 here at £495 would be perfect

 

http://www.rmacleod.co.uk/CUSTOMER%20S_H%20STOCK%20LIST.pdf

 

A

[Rem223]

SSS my Remington still has a 17 Remington Pac-Nor barrel. I wont be changing it for a Fireball till it is shot out. I may get another rifle in 17 fireball though. The Hodgdon website lists several loads for this cartridge.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

The one thing I would stress is that if you do reload you are very careful with measurements. I don't think the Fireball is as finicky as the 17 Remington but they are prone to pressure spikes, and small changes in powder charges can make a big difference in pressure. I used to use Remington 7 1/2 primers with hot loads as they are slightly thicker cups, but now I run milder loads at around 3800fps with 25gr Vmax and use Winchester primers since they are easier to find here.

 

When fitted with a moderator the recoil is almost non existent with 17's but they hit a lot harder than you would think considering it is such a small bullet. You might want to have a look on this forum as there are some real small calibre enthisiasts.... http://www.saubier.com/

[Dekers]

I'm late to this one but scanning throught there has been a fare bit of interesting stuff!

 

My knowledge of the 17 certrefires is limited to the fact they are fast, hard to find and expensive!

 

Basic calibres such as .223, 22-250 and .243 are popular for the simple reason many people do the research, they are all very capable fox round, provide a pretty wide range of reasonably priced and easy to find factory ammo, and easy to reload should you wish!!

 

There are MANY other capable rounds and many situations and reasons why people want to use them; I'm pretty simple and stick with what works for me.

 

But I have 7, different calibre, FAC tools in the cabinet, and can usually find a calibre/ammunition combination that works pretty well for any given situation!!

 

ATB!!