vmax55 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 not .50 mate too much for a fox,but my 243 AI and 7mm wsm I would and do on a regular basis,under the correct conditions of course how can you say .50 is too much power for fox . but say 22-250 is better than .223 as it has more power and anything with more power is better because it kills things quicker. how fast is dead bye the way? I respect your opion anyway ackley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 not .50 mate too much for a fox,but my 243 AI and 7mm wsm I would and do on a regular basis,under the correct conditions of course Well ****** me what happenend to that 22.250 you talk about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax55 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Well ****** me what happenend to that 22.250 you talk about :o :o :o i did wonder myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 how can you say .50 is too much power for fox . but say 22-250 is better than .223 as it has more power and anything with more power is better because it kills things quicker. how fast is dead bye the way? I respect your opion anyway ackley I was joking,who in this country has a .50 passed for vermin "how fast is dead",well the best dead is instant the worst dead is slowly,wouldnt you agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax55 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 I was joking,who in this country has a .50 passed for vermin"how fast is dead",well the best dead is instant the worst dead is slowly,wouldnt you agree agreed on that. ever fired a .50 ackley off the range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Ackley, sorry but I have to agree with vmax here - there is no such thing as a 'better' calibre. They all exist to do slightly different jobs. I have a 22 Hornet, 223, 243, all for fox. I have had a 22-250 in the past as well. If I am going to shoot foxes on one of my farms which is primarily horses, I use the Hornet - the land is flat, there are few decent backstops and the horses spook easily and can do themselves harm if they hare round too much. Hornet is loopier and lower powered than 22-250, which on your scales makes it a WORSE calibre. However, on that farm, this is hogwash - I need it quiet, and I need it to drop like a stone after about 175 yards - Hornet does this, and still kills Charlie nicely to about 200-ish (bit less ideally!) I have a 223 for general purpose foxing - i.e. pretty much every other piece of land, and I have a 243 for long range foxing, because with a 55gr bullet it can make a 22-250 look distinctly amateur. We are talking tool for the job, not BETTER! I have 3 fox calibres because I have different bits of land and I'm a picky little sod. If I had to have just one, it's a 223 - It's fairly cheap to run, shoots to 250 easily, can be used on rabbits without any major bother (although head shots!), has little barrel wear, is quieter than 22-250 or 243. If my permissions all needed distinctly long range foxing, then I'd use 22-250 or 243 because they would be better suited to the job - it all depends on land. Any calibre debate is pointless unless you consider context, since if we say the best calibre is the fastest and flattest, then we'd all be using Barrett's new .416 and the foxes would be exploding into a million tiny pieces. Consider context, and we have the wide variety of fox tools currently available. The only pointless one is 222 really, and the reason for this is that it is not different enough from 223 to make it worth choosing. The only reason would be a cheap rifle as far as I can see. That said, plenty of people like them, and good luck to them! I wouldn't buy one, but if I had one, I wouldn't sell it either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandamonia Posted April 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Wow what a debate. Just to fill you guys in, the land is going to be two 5000 acre farms and i will shoot as far as my skill lets me. i use Gen 3 PVS14 night vision and can see pretty much everything out to 1000 yards in the dead of night. Honestly with a bipod i could not tell you what the limits are! the extra range would be nice from the 22-250 and with reloading i could load it up or load it down to what ever speed i need. I wouldnt want to have much more recoil than a 22-250 due to my NV, so .243 would be a little much. The flatter shooting the bullet the better since judging drop is a pain using NV. if i can tame the noise and flash with a top end mod then sounds like a 22-250 will be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 OK, thanks for the context! I'd recommend 243 still.... 22-250 drives a 55gr bullet at around 3,650fps, and this has a BC of .267 (nosler 55gr BT) 243 drives a 55gr bullet at around 4,000fps, and this has a BC of .276 (Nosler 55gr BT) This means you get a flatter trajectory and better wind performance, and the recoil is comparable - i.e. there is ****** all. You tame the noise to a degree with a moderator (i.e. you're not going to be deafened but in the dead of night either is bloody loud) and the muzzle flash is tamed with 1. a longer barrel and 2. a moderator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandamonia Posted April 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 OK, thanks for the context! I'd recommend 243 still.... 22-250 drives a 55gr bullet at around 3,650fps, and this has a BC of .267 (nosler 55gr BT) 243 drives a 55gr bullet at around 4,000fps, and this has a BC of .276 (Nosler 55gr BT) This means you get a flatter trajectory and better wind performance, and the recoil is comparable - i.e. there is ****** all. You tame the noise to a degree with a moderator (i.e. you're not going to be deafened but in the dead of night either is bloody loud) and the muzzle flash is tamed with 1. a longer barrel and 2. a moderator. it might be a bit up hill to get .243 for my first centerfire. i think it will be a bit easier if i go for .223 or 22-250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie g Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Like i said for a fox calibre at night the 223 will do all you need as i would not shoot a fox in the lamp past 250 yrds would you ? yes i have shot up to 250 yards at night. and would do again if the conditions are right. i dont no where you live but the fields here are very long with good safe back stops. and the average fox is normal around the 175 to 185 yard mark. but a good number on the 200 yard mark also. of course you have to be sure of your kit and clean kill otherwise dont take the shot. before anyone says you cant see a fox at 250 yards at night ! all i will say is lightforce 170 with amber filter and zeiss scope not only can you see the fox at that range you can make it and the back ground out very clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandamonia Posted April 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 yes i have shot up to 250 yards at night. and would do again if the conditions are right. i dont no where you live but the fields here are very long with good safe back stops. and the average fox is normal around the 175 to 185 yard mark. but a good number on the 200 yard mark also. of course you have to be sure of your kit and clean kill otherwise dont take the shot. before anyone says you cant see a fox at 250 yards at night ! all i will say is lightforce 170 with amber filter and zeiss scope not only can you see the fox at that range you can make it and the back ground out very clear. i could see a fox at 1000 with enough mag in the pitch black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie g Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 i could see a fox at 1000 with enough mag in the pitch black. trouble is mate the higher the mag at night the less light you get in the scope imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandamonia Posted April 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 trouble is mate the higher the mag at night the less light you get in the scope imo yeh thats not a problem with what i got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 i could see a fox at 1000 with enough mag in the pitch black. You'd have to shoot almost straight up in the air to get that, but I guess you're used to doing that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 QUOTE (magman @ Apr 4 2010, 09:10 PM) Like i said for a fox calibre at night the 223 will do all you need as i would not shoot a fox in the lamp past 250 yrds would you ? yes i have shot up to 250 yards at night. and would do again if the conditions are right. i dont no where you live but the fields here are very long with good safe back stops. and the average fox is normal around the 175 to 185 yard mark. but a good number on the 200 yard mark also. of course you have to be sure of your kit and clean kill otherwise dont take the shot. before anyone says you cant see a fox at 250 yards at night ! all i will say is lightforce 170 with amber filter and zeiss scope not only can you see the fox at that range you can make it and the back ground out very clear. So we agree then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 it might be a bit up hill to get .243 for my first centerfire. i think it will be a bit easier if i go for .223 or 22-250. I disagree - if you can show good reason they have to grant it! Sounds like you're decided on 22-250, and tbh it has done all along. Does beg the question why bother asking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandamonia Posted April 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 I disagree - if you can show good reason they have to grant it! Sounds like you're decided on 22-250, and tbh it has done all along. Does beg the question why bother asking... i honestly dont know that much about each one so i wanted to learn what people knew. since they shoot the same bullet head though it seems a bigger case can only be a benefit since i can use as much powder as i like rather be limited to the size of the casing of the .223 but then again there seems to be some very cheap .223 ammo around which could really help when i want to do some practice shooting. i havent honestly decided but what i want isnt always the most practical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 (edited) .......i use Gen 3 PVS14 night vision and can see pretty much everything out to 1000 yards in the dead of night. ......... i could see a fox at 1000 with enough mag in the pitch black. I'm glad the PVS14 and your eyes are that good to 1000 yards, which lens do you have on it?? ...and, what gun are you using at the moment?? ...and, where would I get one of these in the UK, I really need to check out a 1000yard NV. Cheers Edited April 5, 2010 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 (edited) I'm glad the PVS14 and your eyes are that good to 1000 yards, which lens do you have on it?? ...and, just what gun are you using at the moment?? ...and where would I get one of these in the UK, I really need to check out a 1000yard NV. Cheers I think you need to have a good read of The Walts Guide to Sniping , Dekers laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa It's all in there Edited April 5, 2010 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 Woo hoo, this is an extremely good post. Can we agree then...... A 22 Hornet is a cracking round for foxes up to at least 150 yards. Ditto a 223 for 250 yards 22-250 (and maybe 243) 300 yards and a tad more if you have the ground and the the scope and the skill to use it. After all, dead is dead, and the above calibres in the right hands will do it at those ranges. It all depends what you want to do; what land you have, and if it is going to be at night or daylight. But, if you are a newcomer then the smaller calibres are easier to shoot with (can't wait for the response on this comment). Also, some police forces will not allow a 243 etc for only fox, and pleading your cause will get you knowwhere as they have the ultimate sanction. I remember applying for a 22 Hornet as my first fox gun and was told by my Firearms Officer that it wasn't man enough, and would a 223 be OK? Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandamonia Posted April 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 I'm glad the PVS14 and your eyes are that good to 1000 yards, which lens do you have on it?? ...and, what gun are you using at the moment?? ...and, where would I get one of these in the UK, I really need to check out a 1000yard NV. Cheers I currently use this on my rimfire rifles since i dont own a centerfire yet. The PVS14 comes with a 1x lens but you can attach it to the back of a dayscope and use a 20x lens if you like. I use a laser for extending the viewing range behind a dayscope this makes the animals eyes shine and also pretty much makes viewing distance as far as you can see! The technology is currently going for about £4000-£5000 in the UK for local technology from france/netherlands but this doesnt rival the US gen 3 stuff i can get. normally £2600 each for a PVS14, PM me if your interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandamonia Posted April 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 I have just been advised about my NV and recoil is very important. does a 22-250 have much more recoil than a .223? can this be reduced via a moderator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 I currently use this on my rimfire rifles since i dont own a centerfire yet. The PVS14 comes with a 1x lens but you can attach it to the back of a dayscope and use a 20x lens if you like. I use a laser for extending the viewing range behind a dayscope this makes the animals eyes shine and also pretty much makes viewing distance as far as you can see! The technology is currently going for about £4000-£5000 in the UK for local technology from france/netherlands but this doesnt rival the US gen 3 stuff i can get. normally £2600 each for a PVS14, PM me if your interested. At what range are you thinking of shooting Fox with this NV Pan ? BJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandamonia Posted April 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 At what range are you thinking of shooting Fox with this NV Pan ? BJ 200-300 tops? nothing crazy obviously start off with closer ranges and work my way up as i get better. i have been checking some america forums about recoil and a .223 has much less recoil than the 22-250 this might be a deciding factor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 200-300 tops? Didn't know trees were that tall... Seriously, don't think that this NV is the be all & end all. Depending on weather conditions/moon phases etc that will be your tops. Good for problem Foxes, but becomes paper target shooting after a while. BJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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