Strange cartridge prices.

[Cranfield]

I need to restock on lead cartridges and was ringing round yesterday to check prices.

It was quite surprising to find 24gm plastic 12 bore (£156 per 1000) were more expensive than some 28gm plastic 12 bore (£136 per 1000).

Also, 21gm plastic 12 bore (£129 per 1000) were not much cheaper than the 28gm 12 bore.

 

I got a range of prices in 21gm, 24gm and 28gm across different Manufacturers and this disparity was common in all the prices I was given.

 

Two outlets gave the same reason, " Everyone seems to be switching from 24gm to 21gm and overall sales of cartridges are down and the Manufacturers are offering some good deals on 28gm".

There seems to be a contradiction in there somewhere.

[Dunkield]

I think it is a supply and demand case, I bet for every 24gram cartridge sold there are 20 or more 28gram cartridges sold.

Same applies to 20 bore cartridges, smaller less lead, but more expensive.

Plus I believe gun shops use their spare time to make up these and other stories

[UKPoacher]

A lot depends on the shops themselves. If their customers are happy with 32g number 6's they can happily order 50,000+ and get a big discount from the suppliers. In sheep country felt wads are often cheaper than in other areas pro-rata because more shooters use them. In areas where clays are the target species then whatever is locally fashionable is bought by retailers in greater quantities and at bigger discounts. It's all about finding a retailer who sells a lot of what you shoot to get the best price.

[Guest cookoff013]

yup, its all about supply and command.

[Vince Green]

I still remain unconvinced by the benefits of the lighter shot charges. To me the equation is simple, more lead in the air is better than less lead in the air. The cartridge manufacturers like making the lightweight cartridges because it is cheaper for them and they are driving this along. Don't get taken in by it, its a con.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Vince Green

[Floating Chamber]

The propellant needed to drive 21 grams is much more expensive! Honest!

Edited May 11, 2010 by Floating Chamber

[Harnser]

I still remain unconvinced by the benefits of the lighter shot charges. To me the equation is simple, more lead in the air is better than less lead in the air. The cartridge manufacturers like making the lightweight cartridges because it is cheaper for them and they are driving this along. Don't get taken in by it, its a con.

 

 

Vince , I think the advantage of 21 gram loads is that they can be pushed faster and in my urika 2 they are just about re-coiless .

 

Harnser .

[Dunkield]

Might be an age thing but I don't get the lighter load thing, I have to add I have a heavy(ish) sporter that fits me so recoil isn't a problem.

I/we used to do 100 bird shoots quite often going round twice back in the day using 32gram cartridges as that's all the was.

Some of those cartridges thumped a bit Winchester AA's, Trap 100's were a bit pokey, but the Mionchi (sp) cartridges and some others were real old bangers.

So modern 28gram clay cartridges and 32 gram game loads seem tame in comparison, I don't shoot enough of them to need to change.

[Vince Green]

The propellant needed to drive 21 grams is much more expensive! Honest!

If you mean , it needs a bigger charge of powder thats generally true but they can get round that to some extent by using very fast burning powders which requre a smaller charge than a slower burning powder. That is far from ideal as well because they reach their peak pressures earlier and it goes against the popular wisdom that a progressive push up the barrel is needed to give the best patterns.

 

How can a cheap cartridge with less shot, the cheapest plastic wad available and a powder chosen more for economy than good ballistics represent good value? On a morning out shooting pigeons how many cartridges are you going to get through? An extra pound spent on a box of really good cartridges must be better than making do with inferior cartridges just because they were cheap.

 

I spend a lot of time and money on my shooting. When I go out I take the best cartridges for the job. I still miss but I'm not left wondering if it could have been different.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Vince Green

[Cranfield]

I started using 21gm and 24 gm loads for clays only because they were cheaper than 28gm loads, not for reasons of recoil.

It seems as though I will have to review the situation.

I also only use plastic wads for clays and felt wads for live quarry shooting.

[Harnser]

Might be an age thing but I don't get the lighter load thing, I have to add I have a heavy(ish) sporter that fits me so recoil isn't a problem.

I/we used to do 100 bird shoots quite often going round twice back in the day using 32gram cartridges as that's all the was.

Some of those cartridges thumped a bit Winchester AA's, Trap 100's were a bit pokey, but the Mionchi (sp) cartridges and some others were real old bangers.

So modern 28gram clay cartridges and 32 gram game loads seem tame in comparison, I don't shoot enough of them to need to change.

 

 

It proberbly is an age thing with recoil . I too like you didnt bother with recoil when I was younger and would shoot any thing I could get my hands on . But unfortunately I now suffer from an old war wound that is aggrivated by shot gun recoil . Hence 21 gram loades and the urika 2 .

 

Harnser .

[Vince Green]

fast burning powders give a much sharper recoil than a slower powder. Again this suits the cartridge manufactures because it creates the impression that the cartridge is pokey and therefore must be good.

[Salopian]

I think we are being ripped off by a cartridge manufacturing cartel. Hull usually raise the price and everyone follows suit. Why can Eley sell Spanish made products cheaper than Hull? The Euro is at a low against the £ound, Lead is at its lowest price for years, BP Oil made £5 Billion in 3 months and are currently throwing oil into the sea in America, but I will bet that the prices will not come down? What is the current reason for the highly inflated prices?

If a manufacturer had some balls and sold some real cost cutter cartridges they would be inundated with demands.

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

I think in pigeon shooting terms there alot less pigeon shooting going on for two reasons one lack of birds to shoot at.

 

And the other in this part of m4 corridor alot of buiders are pigeon shooters and with lack of work has eqauled lack of cash to buy cartridges .

 

I live within 10 miles of just cartridges and charles does seem not be keeping as much stock I dont why but my guess is there the turnover at the moment is low for many factors .

 

Just my five eggs OTH

[Vince Green]

When money is tight and jobs are uncertain its obvious where people are going to cutback. However, in real terms cartridges have never been so cheap in terms of what they cost in comparison to incomes or say the price of a loaf of bread or a pint of milk.

 

Thats why the cartridge manufacturers are having to fight each other for sales and make every saving they possibly can to keep their product cheap. Even now if you stand in gunshops you will hear people walk in or phone up and ask "what price for 1000 cartridges" and the only thing they are concerned about is price - nothing else seems to matter.

 

I don't blame the manufacturers and I don't blame the dealers. It must be a very difficult environment to have to do business.

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

When money is tight and jobs are uncertain its obvious where people are going to cutback. However, in real terms cartridges have never been so cheap in terms of what they cost in comparison to incomes or say the price of a loaf of bread or a pint of milk.

 

 

Ten years ago I was buying a 1000 6s of fibre wad cartridges for £78 from SCATS last 1000 wast near £138 for same 28grams 6s.

 

Regards OTH

[Vince Green]

Thirty four years ago a thousand cartridges was more than a week's wages to me ( quite a lot more and I was earning good money)and I could buy nearly three gallons of petrol for what I used to pay for a box of 25. However I used to reload cartridges for half the price of bought cartridges.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Vince Green