re-enforcing stop whistle

[darren m]

you think your dog knows the stop whistle :o , in fact i know she knows it , she used to be pretty good .

but now

not so good and trying to get her to sit on the whistle instead of hovering is a pain . she will stop but tends to run on a bit and if out there in the field sometimes ignores me totally until she see's me running at her :o usually swearing :o

 

so i need to re-enforce the stop whistle training , the thing is i,m sure the damn dogs knows exactley what i require , but i,m sure it thinks it knows better or does,nt think its important .

what can i do ??

is there anything else to try apart from the most basic stuff of walking to heel on lead and making her sit on the whistle every time its pipped

 

thanks

Edited May 22, 2010 by darren m

[pegleg31]

first off keep going with the lead work.

 

have you got a long lead you can use?(about 10/15m)

 

just use that to re-enforce the stop whistle,pip your whistle and if she does'nt sit give her a good yank and the word "sit".

 

 

also work alot closer,throw a dummy out to about 15/20yds.pick a point at about 5yds out to blow your whistle you want her to sit at first no further out than 10 yds.it'll help alot if you can have someone near the dummy to stop her getting to it.if she does DON'T discipline her for retrieving the dummy as this might put her off.

 

if i can help any further just pm me :o

 

 

 

PS. how's the quartering going?

[Lloyd90]

Sorry to post differently Pegleg but I was reading Joe Irving's "Training Spaniels" the other day and it said that a dog knows when its on the long lead and will do what you want on it, but once its off they know and its not the same.

 

I would try blowing the stop whistle and if the dog runs on an extra 2-3 metres, calmly walk out to the dog and drag him back 2-3 metres to the spot that you blew the whistle. Should soon learn what you say goes!

[mikee]

when youre stop whistle training try not to stop them on the outrun to a retrieve too often, you may find the dog will start to look for the stop whistle and become "sticky", try when the dog is free running, when i first let mine off the lead and say " get on he normally belts off, this is when i enforce it,

stop whistle is really a short sharp shock lesson, you need to get it nailed down quickly, you may find more problems if you drag the process out,

 

hope this helps

 

mikee

[poppythedog]

Have a friend hide behind a tree/bush etc 20/30 yds ahead, throw dummy past the point your friend is hiding & send the dog, blow stop whistle just as the dog is passing this point & if the dog doesn't immediately stop then friend hurls something soft like a game bag at the dog.

 

The message to the dog is "I can still get you when you think I am out of range" The important bit of this exercise is that the game bag hits the dog 1st time.

 

You are right in thinking the dog knows exactly what you want & is trying it on.

 

Oh and make sure the dog is rewarded when it does obey even if it's just a pat on the head.

 

I used this technique on my #1 spaniel who is very strong willed to good effect.

 

Good luck.

[mudpatten]

Can I ask how long the whistle signal that you use is?

 

Is it a short pip or an elongated note?

[darren m]

cheers lads some good replys

 

pegleg -- i,m going to work on the short dummy / stop you mentioned -- i tried the long lead but was a pain .

 

bigthug - that reminds me i have a copy of that book , i will have a re-read.

 

mikee -- she not too bad on the run for a ( dummy ) retrieve , its usually worse when she's free running or self hunting , i,m sure she turns her earing aid off

 

poppy -- i like that idea of using someone else to let her know that i can still get at her, will give it a try ,

 

mudpatten -- i use the elongated peeeep , why do you ask mate

 

thanks lads

[mudpatten]

Only because some people use a short "peep" which the dog can "run through", but if you`re already using the long note i think your own suggestion of going back to basics is the soundest idea. I don`t think there is a quick fix for a dog that has started to think for itself.

 

cheers lads some good replys

 

pegleg -- i,m going to work on the short dummy / stop you mentioned -- i tried the long lead but was a pain .

 

bigthug - that reminds me i have a copy of that book , i will have a re-read.

 

mikee -- she not too bad on the run for a ( dummy ) retrieve , its usually worse when she's free running or self hunting , i,m sure she turns her earing aid off

 

poppy -- i like that idea of using someone else to let her know that i can still get at her, will give it a try ,

 

mudpatten -- i use the elongated peeeep , why do you ask mate

 

thanks lads

[WGD]

Darren - why are you stopping the dog? Have you got into the habit of stopping the dog when it hots up by or draws on by any chance therefore trying to take the dog away from its reward of a find or (maybe?) a chase?

 

If the dog is a keen retriever reward the stop with a retrieve, i.e. stop whistle, throw dummy (make it an easy, obvious mark). Assuming the dog sees the dummy, one of three things will happen:

 

1. Dog sees dummy and runs in - throw the dummy to the side of you so you can intercept and not allow the retrieve.

2. Dog will stop slowly - walk out to the dog, put it calmly in the position it was when you blew the stop and get the retrieve yourself.

3. Dog's *** hits the deck as soon as it hears the stop, it looks for the dummy and marks well and is sent for the retrieve.

 

By only allowing the retrieve when (3) occurs you will sharpen up the dogs drop on the whistle.

[ziplex]

My little springer was coming on really well on the stop whistle until I went after her a bit hard one day when she didn't stop straight away, for ages after this she'd squirm and crawl towards me. My fault as she's a little nervy and I was too rough with her. What I ended up doing was putting her on a 10mtr lead and looping it through the bottom section of a gate, sitting her then walking back away from her, call her then blow the stop whistle and gently stand on the lead, wait a while return to her and make a big fuss, she now recognises that stop means stop and praise instead of being worried about being grabbed by her scruff and being dumped back on the spot. I only had to do this a few times to get her back on track.

[pegleg31]

My little springer was coming on really well on the stop whistle until I went after her a bit hard one day when she didn't stop straight away, for ages after this she'd squirm and crawl towards me. My fault as she's a little nervy and I was too rough with her. What I ended up doing was putting her on a 10mtr lead and looping it through the bottom section of a gate, sitting her then walking back away from her, call her then blow the stop whistle and gently stand on the lead, wait a while return to her and make a big fuss, she now recognises that stop means stop and praise instead of being worried about being grabbed by her scruff and being dumped back on the spot. I only had to do this a few times to get her back on track.

 

 

 

if you use a long lead correctly you can use it for a number of thing's.i use mine with a tether(cork screw type) but anything that will act as an anchotr will work.

 

bigthug if you look at 'the drakeshead way' and john haltead usses a long lead in a similar way.plus if you think that an electric collar would be a complete waste of a training aid as a dog does know when one is being used hence the reason for dummy collars

[UKPoacher]

Sorry to post differently Pegleg but I was reading Joe Irving's "Training Spaniels" the other day and it said that a dog knows when its on the long lead and will do what you want on it, but once its off they know and its not the same.

 

I don't think a dog actually knows when it is on a long line and when it is not. What I believe happens is that the dog becomes accustomed to the difference between when you put a line on and when you don't. It associates a different reaction from you after you put a line on. The way to test this (and I have) is to put your line on as normal and commence training. After a few days try putting a trailing line on the dog and see what happens. The dog thinks you have fitted a line and will initially behave as if expecting the usual leash-jerk reprimand. When that doesn't come the dog reverts to off-leash behaviour.

 

I realise some people will pooh-pooh the idea, but I have found time after time that a thrown object, chain usually, as soon as the dog fails to respond to a command breaks the dog's concentration and focuses it on you. After a few days just the sound of you rattling your car keys or jingling your loose change will have the desired effect. The object doesn't have to hit the dog, just to land near to it.

[pegleg31]

I don't think a dog actually knows when it is on a long line and when it is not. What I believe happens is that the dog becomes accustomed to the difference between when you put a line on and when you don't. It associates a different reaction from you after you put a line on. The way to test this (and I have) is to put your line on as normal and commence training. After a few days try putting a trailing line on the dog and see what happens. The dog thinks you have fitted a line and will initially behave as if expecting the usual leash-jerk reprimand. When that doesn't come the dog reverts to off-leash behaviour.

 

I realise some people will pooh-pooh the idea, but I have found time after time that a thrown object, chain usually, as soon as the dog fails to respond to a command breaks the dog's concentration and focuses it on you. After a few days just the sound of you rattling your car keys or jingling your loose change will have the desired effect. The object doesn't have to hit the dog, just to land near to it.

 

 

i've seen this method work with great affect with some dog's

[darren m]

Darren - why are you stopping the dog? Have you got into the habit of stopping the dog when it hots up by or draws on by any chance therefore trying to take the dog away from its reward of a find or (maybe?) a chase?

 

If the dog is a keen retriever reward the stop with a retrieve, i.e. stop whistle, throw dummy (make it an easy, obvious mark). Assuming the dog sees the dummy, one of three things will happen:

 

1. Dog sees dummy and runs in - throw the dummy to the side of you so you can intercept and not allow the retrieve.

2. Dog will stop slowly - walk out to the dog, put it calmly in the position it was when you blew the stop and get the retrieve yourself.

3. Dog's *** hits the deck as soon as it hears the stop, it looks for the dummy and marks well and is sent for the retrieve.

 

By only allowing the retrieve when (3) occurs you will sharpen up the dogs drop on the whistle.

 

hi mate -- stopping the dog -- yes sort of combo of both -- well when she hots up or gets too far in front or worst still stops listening to me ( this is happening more and more ) , i want her to quarter/hunt a bit closer . not always a retrieve there , some times i just want the quartering/hunting in control, at my command sort of thing .

but if i can stop her , for a few seconds or minute as shes starting to get hot and take over , hopefully she can calm down and i can re-direct her with some control

ideally i want no 3 on your list but usually get no 2 at best -- but can it be done :(

 

shes a v.keen retriever and knows the whistle , just trying it on . just come out of season this last weekend so i,m going to start again

thanks lads keep the ideas coming ...

 

cheers

[darren m]

hi lads -- still at a sticking point with my older springer and the stop whistle

would an e-collar sort it out

any more ideas

 

thanks