Steel shot.............Warning

[yanibaby]

so gamebores leaflet stating no damage to guns is false then

 

 

No, none of the information in the Gamebore leaflet is false.

 

If you look at the leaflet closely, Gamebore do in fact say that there have been some cases of gun barrel damage caused by large Steel shot in the past. These were decades ago when the research and development of Steel shot was still in its early stages in the USA. (Things have moved on considerably since then)

 

Obviously Steel is harder than Lead, and if it comes into direct contact with the gun barrel then there is likely to be some damage, therefore if you prevent the Steel shot from coming into direct contact with the barrel this will ensure that no damage occurs - hence the introduction of the high density plastic wads used in Gamebores Steel shot loads.

 

The leaflet actually states that: ''Early Steel loads in the US initially caused problems with gun damage as large shot was used without special high density plastic wads to protect the barrel, however Gamebore have sold over ONE HUNDRED MILLION rounds of Steel shot cartridges world wide with no reports of gun barrel damage.''

 

So to clarify, Gamebore are simply saying that out of the 100,000,000+ Steel loads manufactured and sold by them, there has not been a single report of gun barrel damage - Gamebore are not saying that there have never been any cases of guns damaged by the use of Steel shot manufactured by anyone ever in the history of Steel shot use.

[anser2]

As Browning have a big market in the US I think you will find that this is a case of the gun mnaker covering themselves in case anyone tries to sue them in the US. The Yanks are famous for shoving the most powerful shell they can get hold of through their guns. I have a 3.5 inch chambered Browning Gold with no steel proof markings. I and its previous owner have shot well over thousand 3 and 3.5 inch shells through it without any sign of damage and its checked over at the end of each season by a gunsmiths. I also use special steel proof full .700 choke ( thats about the same as full lead choke ) I have shot many 100s of 32 gr steel shells through several improved cylinder and 1\4 choke fixed choke s\s guns while pigeon shooting without any barrel damage.

 

The old steel 32 gr shells of a decade ago were rubbish , but the modern shells from Gamebore are very , very good up to 40 yards.

Edited July 18, 2010 by anser2

[UKPoacher]

The top and bottom of it is that a gun manual printed years ago is not relevant to modern steel loads. I have a car manual at home for the Austin 7 - 1933 model. It warns against doing high speeds - over 25 mph as it is unsafe. Things move on.

 

In today's health & safety obsessed, litigious society no cartridge maker would openly claim that damage will not occur if there was the slightest chance of it.

[MC]

The top and bottom of it is that a gun manual printed years ago is not relevant to modern steel loads. I have a car manual at home for the Austin 7 - 1933 model. It warns against doing high speeds - over 25 mph as it is unsafe. Things move on.

 

In today's health & safety obsessed, litigious society no cartridge maker would openly claim that damage will not occur if there was the slightest chance of it.

 

 

What a crock of ****,

 

It is a manual that has come with a gun that is a couple of years old at most and the gun is superior steel proofed. Still I am sure you will still argue as you know more than any long established gun manufacturer.

[wymberley]

Hi,

Sorry chaps, don't know how to do these quotie thingys but see post #17 and the second quote.

I was always lead to believe that a "ring bulge" was a function of over pressure where that increase had actually cleared out an obstruction which if it hadn't a burst barrel could possibly have resulted. The bulge occured a bit further down than the sight of that obstruction and was a result of the pressure causing the barrel material to exceed its elastic limit and hence preventing its ability to return to its original shape: In this case the obstruction would appear to be the choke.

I can't help wondering how much a gun with that defect, cosmetic or not (I think not) would be marked down if offered for sale.

Cheers

[UKPoacher]

What a crock of ****,

 

It is a manual that has come with a gun that is a couple of years old at most and the gun is superior steel proofed. Still I am sure you will still argue as you know more than any long established gun manufacturer.

 

If you read Browning's up to date information on their web page it contradicts the information contained in the manual. Things move on and advice changes accordingly. What was regarded as unacceptable has now been made acceptable by new technology. Or don't you still get that?

[al4x]

I can't believe so many people would be accepting of a ring bulge ooh err in their 12 bore barrels, no matter how much I was told it was only cosmetic I'd be fuming if it happened to my gun.

[BlaserF3]

If you read Browning's up to date information on their web page it contradicts the information contained in the manual. Things move on and advice changes accordingly. What was regarded as unacceptable has now been made acceptable by new technology. Or don't you still get that?

 

 

If the gun is a multi choke steel shot can be used, if it's not a multi choke eg; a Trap gun which is tighter than half choke then steel shot must not be fired through that gun.

 

Geddit?

[wymberley]

Hi,

Back in the days when we all shot the same make of cartridge and the only debate was whether you used 6s or 7s, there was a method of applying more choke (usually, "some" choke to a TC barrel) to a more open barrel. Although more costly than honing the choke out somewhat, it wasn't excessively costly. It involved machining a rebate chamfered at either end in the inside of the barrel near the muzzle. It was called recess choking. Now, if you use steel shot, it appears that you can get it for free!

Cheers

[UKPoacher]

Hi,

Back in the days when we all shot the same make of cartridge and the only debate was whether you used 6s or 7s, there was a method of applying more choke (usually, "some" choke to a TC barrel) to a more open barrel. Although more costly than honing the choke out somewhat, it wasn't excessively costly. It involved machining a rebate chamfered at either end in the inside of the barrel near the muzzle. It was called recess choking. Now, if you use steel shot, it appears that you can get it for free!

Cheers

 

You could. Or you can use Gamebore's totally enclosed steel shot and it wouldn't cause any problems cosmetic or otherwise. But you don't want to know that obviously

[UKPoacher]

If the gun is a multi choke steel shot can be used, if it's not a multi choke eg; a Trap gun which is tighter than half choke then steel shot must not be fired through that gun.

 

Geddit?

 

Not so fast! Read Browning's advice carefully. It doesn't saythat at all. I'll even highlight it in a pretty colour for you......

 

All current Browning shotguns with the Invector or Invector-Plus choke tube system are fully steel shot compatible with current factory loads. However, there are limitations to the compatibility of many older Browning shotguns with conventionally choked barrels. In certain models, shooting steel shot may cause a slight "ringe bulge" just inches behind the muzzle. The damage to your gun is purely cosmetic, but the "bulge" can be a factor in resale, especially with collector-grade shotguns.

 

 

Accordingly, our recommendations concerning the use of steel shot in Browning shotguns is as follows:

 

 

 

1. WILL ACCEPT ALL CURRENT FACTORY STEEL SHOT LOADS: All Browning shotguns with the Invector choke or Invector-Plus tube systems, However, we do not recommend the use of Invector full or extra full chokes with steel shot. They pattern too tightly, and sometimes result in a "blown" pattern.

2. WILL ACCEPT ALL CURRENT FACTORY STEEL SHOT LOADS EXCEPT THOSE WITH T, F, BB AND BBB SIZE SHOT: The B-2000 and B-80 shotguns with conventional chokes (Non-Invector)

3. DO NO USE ANY STEEL SHOT LOADS: The Belgian-made A-5, Superposed, Leige, and other Belgian Over/Under models, Double Automatic, American-made A-5 and all other models not listed in category 1 or 2. Note: Belgian Auto-5 barrels are interchangeable with the new Invector barrels which are made in Japan. With this new Invector barrel installed on the Belgian-made Auto-5 receiver, steel shot loads can be used.

 

 

DAMAGE: In not all, but a number of instances a very slight ring will develop about 1 1/2" to 3" rearward of the muzzle. This ring is about .005 of an inch deep, completely encircling the barrel. From our tests we could determine no adverse effect on pattern or shot velocity because of this ring. Our conclusion is that the most significant objection, the slight ring, is entirely cosmetic. This "ring" effect does not affect the function or safety of the firearm.

 

 

YEAR OF PRODUCTION: Nearly all Browning firearms manufactured after 1975 have two letters in the serial number. The two letters indicate the year of manufacture: M=0, Z=1, Y=2, X=3, W=4, V=5, T=6, R=7, P=8, N=9.

 

 

FUTURE: Obviously, we have no control over the ammunition companies and the loads they will produce in the future. So, if in doubt, please check with us or the ammunition company before using new loads in your shotgun.

 

And Gamebore say: Early steel loads may have caused problems but now they have sold over one hundred million cartridges with NO reported barrel damage.

[Guest topshot_2k]

Give it a rest. Pre-browning winchesters are not all proofed for steel but i guess if gamebore says its ok

 

Also miroku fixed choked guns cant all use steel

Edited July 19, 2010 by topshot_2k

[wymberley]

You could. Or you can use Gamebore's totally enclosed steel shot and it wouldn't cause any problems cosmetic or otherwise. But you don't want to know that obviously

Actually, it was meant as a light hearted break from the subject, but no matter. Thanks for the info about Gamebore, I'll have a shufti and see how much they are for the 21/2 chamber version.

Cheers

[poontang]

If you read Browning's up to date information on their web page it contradicts the information contained in the manual. Things move on and advice changes accordingly. What was regarded as unacceptable has now been made acceptable by new technology. Or don't you still get that?

 

No it doesn't.

Download the manual from the Browning website for the 525 model. A gun still in production. It says DO NOT use ANY steel shot in their fixed choke guns. Whilst you're on the site check out the b525 fixed choke model (it's at the bottom of the page) and you'll see it's NOT steel proofed.

It really can't be much clearer can it?

 

The FACTS are simple.

 

Browning/Miroku say NOT to use ANY steel in their fixed choke guns.

 

Gamebore say it's fine to do so (as long as it's not 'high performance' steel, and up to a max 1/2 choke).

 

Your guns, your decision.

 

As i've said before, i'll follow the gun manufacturers recommendations.

 

You do what you want.

[poontang]

You could. Or you can use Gamebore's totally enclosed steel shot and it wouldn't cause any problems cosmetic or otherwise. But you don't want to know that obviously

 

All steel shot manufacturers use a wad that totally encloses the shot. It stops it scratching the bore. It sure as hell wouldn't stop it causing a ring bulge though.

 

But you wouldn't want to know that, obviously

[Guest topshot_2k]

But you wouldn't want to know that, obviously

 

its just cosmetic damage

[UKPoacher]

Sigh! Whilst Browning don't advise you using steel in this model (probably an admission that it isn't as good as most modern guns, but hey, you bought one) they also state that they cannot keep up with modern developments and therefore defer to cartridge manufacturers for up to date advice.

 

Gamebore reckon that even with the obvious failings of this gun you can still use low impact steel loads. Their fully enclosed wads are a relatively new feature making it possible to use steel with chocolate barrels like the B525, whereas before the steel would come into contact with the inferior steel of said B525 and may cause minor cosmetic damage that amounts to a microscopic mark. Given the paintwork on said B525 then it would be difficult to determine how a microscopic mark could affect its resale value.

 

Now who would you take advice from? Some shooter who can't read or is too blind to accept the facts, or a cartridge manufacturer with a worldwide reputation and no particular axe to grind whether you buy steel or lead cartridges?

 

p.s Why did you buy your "Man's gun" for wildfowling if you thought that it can't fire steel and therefore by default can't be used for wildfowl

[Guest topshot_2k]

Sigh! Whilst Browning don't advise you using steel in this model (probably an admission that it isn't as good as most modern guns, but hey, you bought one) they also state that they cannot keep up with modern developments and therefore defer to cartridge manufacturers for up to date advice.

 

Gamebore reckon that even with the obvious failings of this gun you can still use low impact steel loads. Their fully enclosed wads are a relatively new feature making it possible to use steel with chocolate barrels like the B525, whereas before the steel would come into contact with the inferior steel of said B525 and may cause minor cosmetic damage that amounts to a microscopic mark. Given the paintwork on said B525 then it would be difficult to determine how a microscopic mark could affect its resale value.

 

Now who would you take advice from? Some shooter who can't read or is too blind to accept the facts, or a cartridge manufacturer with a worldwide reputation and no particular axe to grind whether you buy steel or lead cartridges?

 

p.s Why did you buy your "Man's gun" for wildfowling if you thought that it can't fire steel and therefore by default can't be used for wildfowl

 

he has a 425waterfowl, proofed for steel. page 1 of thread.

 

B525 is proofed for high performance steel if you buy invector + model. And its not the shot the does the damage, its the pressure resulting from the shot being hard and not compressing as it goes through the fixed choke, no wad will stop this. Not just browning either, miroku, berretta, winchester etc. Good effort though.

Edited July 19, 2010 by topshot_2k

[poontang]

Sigh! Whilst Browning don't advise you using steel in this model (probably an admission that it isn't as good as most modern guns, but hey, you bought one) they also state that they cannot keep up with modern developments and therefore defer to cartridge manufacturers for up to date advice.

 

Gamebore reckon that even with the obvious failings of this gun you can still use low impact steel loads. Their fully enclosed wads are a relatively new feature making it possible to use steel with chocolate barrels like the B525, whereas before the steel would come into contact with the inferior steel of said B525 and may cause minor cosmetic damage that amounts to a microscopic mark. Given the paintwork on said B525 then it would be difficult to determine how a microscopic mark could affect its resale value.

 

Now who would you take advice from? Some shooter who can't read or is too blind to accept the facts, or a cartridge manufacturer with a worldwide reputation and no particular axe to grind whether you buy steel or lead cartridges?

 

p.s Why did you buy your "Man's gun" for wildfowling if you thought that it can't fire steel and therefore by default can't be used for wildfowl

 

Oh dear God

 

I really can't be bothered with this.

 

READ my posts before posting.

 

I do NOT own a 525

I have NEVER owned a 525

I do NOT own a fixed choke gun

I DO own a 425 WILDFOWLER (bought BECAUSE it's steel proofed)

I take advice from a world renowned GUN manufacturer over a cartridge manufacturer

 

I can't be any clearer than that.

 

Can i?

[UKPoacher]

OK, so I'm wrong about your 'Man's Gun' but it still doesn't alter the fact that Browning sold guns that aren't as capable as others at handing steel shot, but despite this modern steel loads can be safely used in these guns. That's what you guys don't get. You are so blindly anti-steel you can't accept that things have progressed since the early steel cartridges and that companies who have no vested interest whether you buy steel or lead will put their necks and wallets on the line and say that steel loads are safe.

[Guest topshot_2k]

OK, so I'm wrong about your 'Man's Gun' but it still doesn't alter the fact that Browning sold guns that aren't as capable as others at handing steel shot, but despite this modern steel loads can be safely used in these guns. That's what you guys don't get. You are so blindly anti-steel you can't accept that things have progressed since the early steel cartridges and that companies who have no vested interest whether you buy steel or lead will put their necks and wallets on the line and say that steel loads are safe.

 

browning make the majority of their guns suitable for steel If you look there isnt many manufacturers that have all their range proofed for all steel.

 

of course they have an interest, they want you to buy THEIR product

[UKPoacher]

browning make the majority of their guns suitable for steel If you look there isnt many manufacturers that have all their range proofed for all steel.

 

of course they have an interest, they want you to buy THEIR product

 

I think you'll find what you are looking for here

[MC]

Sigh! Whilst Browning don't advise you using steel in this model (probably an admission that it isn't as good as most modern guns, but hey, you bought one) they also state that they cannot keep up with modern developments and therefore defer to cartridge manufacturers for up to date advice.

 

Gamebore reckon that even with the obvious failings of this gun you can still use low impact steel loads. Their fully enclosed wads are a relatively new feature making it possible to use steel with chocolate barrels like the B525, whereas before the steel would come into contact with the inferior steel of said B525 and may cause minor cosmetic damage that amounts to a microscopic mark. Given the paintwork on said B525 then it would be difficult to determine how a microscopic mark could affect its resale value.

 

Now who would you take advice from? Some shooter who can't read or is too blind to accept the facts, or a cartridge manufacturer with a worldwide reputation and no particular axe to grind whether you buy steel or lead cartridges?

 

p.s Why did you buy your "Man's gun" for wildfowling if you thought that it can't fire steel and therefore by default can't be used for wildfowl

 

 

It must be nice living in a blinkered world, I wasn't aware steel is the only non toxic load that you can use for shooting wildfowl. I must read these forums more aften and then I will learn something new each day.

[fireboy]

hello all i have a mirku sp6000 which is quet old it is fixed choke 1/4&1/2 and stamped on the barrels is the symble for steel shot proofed but not the high speed steel shot mark so some fixed choke guns are steel proofed and some arnt so you just have to check your barrels as the proof marks are there for a reason

[UKPoacher]

It must be nice living in a blinkered world, I wasn't aware steel is the only non toxic load that you can use for shooting wildfowl. I must read these forums more aften and then I will learn something new each day.

 

You obviously have deeper pockets than most of us to even consider other non toxic options. The only blinkered people on here are those that refuse to believe that modern steel shot loads can be safely used in most shotguns as per the cartridge manufacturers recommendations. You really ought to wake up and smell the coffee.