Advice on caliber please.....

[Harnser]

A flat shooting round dosent really come into the equation . But what you do need is a consistantly accurate round in a consistantly accurate rifle . The .243 and the .270 are proberbly as flat a shooter as you will get .

 

Harnser .

[kent]

Malki , just a couple of bits of advice . You shouldnt be contemplating what calibre to use for deer stalking by the amount of meat damage it will or wont do on the beast . The meat damage is minimal . Go for a .308 winchester and you will have the choise of from 100 grain bullets up to 240 grain . If you are worried about meat damage then you could try to take them with a stick cut out of the hedgerow . Kill them clean and worry about meat damage afterwards .

 

Harnser .

Just don't think your 308 will shoot all them bullets well. 308's generally perform best with 150 grain 130-180 are generally useable sometimes more useable than 150's it all depends on the gun. Past 180 the 30-06 is generally better and i feel you might even stuggle to get hold of 100grn in the uk - certainly in factory ammo

[kent]

You have to view how flat a gun shoots with a touch of reality at 300 yds from a 100 zero most deer legal guns don't shoot a heap different on drop and very few deer are shot at those ranges anyway on fox it is also not that common to take shots so far out. Biggest issue on shooting that far is going to be wind not drop and actually knowing the distance not doping the drop required.

 

For example my .308 FTR rifle shot +3.2 MOA low at 300 yds with very hot 155 scenar match bullets yet my .243" shoots about 13" low in practice at 300yds with 95grn nosler b/tips (both based on 100yds zero). Now i could send the .243" faster and flatter however 3" or so in drop aint gonna help much i should be better shooting a high BC 6mm bullet to help with the wind calls for sure when it would slow up and drop more rather than a super fast and flat light pill.

How many deer have i shot at 300 yds in the last decade or so? maybee one perhaps!

[Beardo]

on the meat damage front - i was just out to catch up on any foxes at our shoot - didn't see anything. Thought i'd check the zero of my 6.5x55 so shot a rabbit - aimed right up the front of it, and do you know what, it was edible afterwards!

[Harnser]

Just don't think your 308 will shoot all them bullets well. 308's generally perform best with 150 grain 130-180 are generally useable sometimes more useable than 150's it all depends on the gun. Past 180 the 30-06 is generally better and i feel you might even stuggle to get hold of 100grn in the uk - certainly in factory ammo

 

100 grain bullets in .308 are available in the uk . I now only load 150 grain bullets and use them on all deer and on foxes . Any how for the type of stalking that I do , heavy woodland and open arable fields at ranges normally no further than 100 yards, I am sure that I could load up some old rusty bolts and get clean kills on deer .

 

Harnser .

[malkiserow]

OK, decision made.

 

.22 Lr (buy straight away, when ticket issued)

.17HMR

.243

.308 (hold off buying this until I get more experience and have tried some other large calibres - then go for 1 for 1 variation if required)

 

Now what to do with the last slot on the application form? :blink:

[Harnser]

OK, decision made.

 

.22 Lr (buy straight away, when ticket issued)

.17HMR

.243

.308 (hold off buying this until I get more experience and have tried some other large calibres - then go for 1 for 1 variation if required)

 

Now what to do with the last slot on the application form? :blink:

50 cal bmg for lots of fun . Good luck .

Harnser .

[kent]

100 grain bullets in .308 are available in the uk . I now only load 150 grain bullets and use them on all deer and on foxes . Any how for the type of stalking that I do , heavy woodland and open arable fields at ranges normally no further than 100 yards, I am sure that I could load up some old rusty bolts and get clean kills on deer .

 

Harnser .

I bet if you developed a load that shot in your 308 (which i doubt as most won't shoot them) you would suddenly find a shortage (called the law of sod) . Seriously best keep away from light or heavy for calibre bullets they hardly ever shoot unless the gun was built with shooting them in mind

[kent]

OK, decision made.

 

.22 Lr (buy straight away, when ticket issued)

.17HMR

.243

.308 (hold off buying this until I get more experience and have tried some other large calibres - then go for 1 for 1 variation if required)

 

Now what to do with the last slot on the application form?

 

 

Wise desisions mate :blink:

[malkiserow]

Wise desisions mate

 

 

I appreciate all the advice from you all. I spoke to another fella today who said he loves his 25 06! The FEO did not like the .65 55 idea saying it is a military round not a hunting round.

 

I've land (300 acres) cleared for .243 and at this stage best left at that. Some more land is cleared for .308 (480 acres).

 

I've had an offer to try a .270 so more work to be done on the final decision for purchase but the application seems best like this.

 

Fingers crossed now :blink:

Edited August 10, 2010 by malkiserow

[wannabefisher]

OK, decision made.

 

.22 Lr (buy straight away, when ticket issued)

.17HMR

.243

.308 (hold off buying this until I get more experience and have tried some other large calibres - then go for 1 for 1 variation if required)

 

Now what to do with the last slot on the application form? :blink:

 

thats exactly what i have

 

I'll just add one point to the discussion. I got a .243 with the aim of being able to shoot light loads on foxes and heavy loads on deer. My gun (sako 75) absolutely hates heavy bullets. It groups 58gn normas sub 1MOA, but anything over 90gn is impossible to group. No exageration, the heavy bullets do well to hit an 8" square target at 100m.

 

so be careful if you want a .243 for everything - different guns like different things.

[Beardo]

The FEO did not like the .65 55 idea saying it is a military round not a hunting round.

 

the FEO doesn't know his **** from his elbow then, yes it was originally a military round but it's one of the most popular and oldest

hunting rounds in Europe.

best stay clear of the .223 then as it's used by all the Western military! :blink:

[malkiserow]

the FEO doesn't know his **** from his elbow then, yes it was originally a military round but it's one of the most popular and oldest

hunting rounds in Europe.

best stay clear of the .223 then as it's used by all the Western military! :blink:

 

I had chats with others not on this forum who swear by the .65 55 and have moved away from other calibres

[Harnser]

I bet if you developed a load that shot in your 308 (which i doubt as most won't shoot them) you would suddenly find a shortage (called the law of sod) . Seriously best keep away from light or heavy for calibre bullets they hardly ever shoot unless the gun was built with shooting them in mind

 

My dear friend , I have loaded just about every 30 cal bullet for my .308 and have had great success with all of them on different species of deer and foxes . I now only load 150 grain bullets to shoot deer and foxes . simply because the 150 grain bullet is one size to fit all . If I can group in a 4 inch circle at 100 yards then I have enough accuracy to kill deer cleanly . I can assure you that I can do a lot better than that with any bullet that I have loaded in my trusty M77 ruger . Including 100 grain and 240 grain .

Harnser .

[Dunkield]

The FEO did not like the .65 55 idea saying it is a military round not a hunting round.

Jesus H Christ I am glad I don't leave near you :blink:

 

6.5 blurb...

 

Thousands of Swedish Mausers imported into the U.S. After World War II introduced American hunters to what many consider to be the finest medium capacity 6.5mm cartridge developed during the tail end of the 19th century. And of all the war surplus rifles that invaded American soil during the fifties and sixties, the little Sweede carbine was the one we all wanted. It has class. Workmanship and accuracy were second to none. Even today the 6.5 x 55mm is an extremely popular cartridge among American hunters. And many Scandinavian hunters consider the little 6.5 to be potent medicine for all big game up to the size of moose. Norma offers several factory loads; one a 139 grain spitzer at 2800 fps, another a 156 grain round nose at 2500 fps. For all around hunting of deer size game with the little 6.5, the Nosler125 grain and Hornady129 grain bullets are excellent choices. For Whitetails and Pronghorn in open country, the 120 grain Speerand 120 grain Noslershoot flat and hit hard. For woods hunting, trying the Hornady160 grain round nose. When it comes to powders there is no best choice. Feed the 6.5 x 55mm anything that burns at a slow to medium rate and it will sing a pretty song.

[Paul Benjamin]

I am going through my FAC application at the moment and put in for .243 as the largest caliber that I thought would do the job on deer that a first time FAC applicant could go for. However, the FEO says that I can probably get up to .308 if I want it and swap out the .243 for .308. Is this a good idea?

 

My other thought was to go for 65 55 as a flatter long range deer gun with less meat damage. Realistically I will mostly shoot the smaller deer species but want a rifle that can be used on the larger species such as in Scotland with perhaps longer range shots.

 

I will get fox on my .17HMR which will be OK with good shot placement on shorter range shots. My idea before was to do my occasional long range fox shooting with a light .243 bullet. I guess anything over .243 is OTT for fox. My local gun shop says that light fox rounds in a .243 with wear out the gun very quickly?! :blink:

 

BTW I know a .222 and .223 would be better for fox but I do not really shoot enough fox to warrant a dedicated fox rifle (this is my compomise area)

 

My priority is a flexible deer rifle. The fox capability is a bonus.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Hi Malkiserow

 

I have just read some of the replys you have got, I think that your firearms officer is either just out of shorts or he has never used one of the most popular rounds available today and for the last 100 yrs! the 6.5x55 swede.

 

If you want a good flat short and long range round for both deer and fox I would certainly look towards the 6.5x55 swede you say anything over a 243 is overkill in my line of work a dead fox is a dead fox, I use a Sako 85 6.5x55 with hand loaded 140 gn soft points powder varget 36grns will drop a fox anything out to 300yrds with ease and drop any deer up to and including the largest red at a sensible range of up to 150 yrds heart and lung shot.

You will need to zero in at 2" above bull at 100yrds. If you don't load your own the Federal power shok 140 grn soft point is a good all round starter load.

Enjoy your sport and shoot safely

 

Paul Benjamin

Edited August 11, 2010 by Paul Benjamin

[Gully]

The FEO did not like the .65 55 idea saying it is a military round not a hunting round.

 

Here you go, from the Home Office Guidance 2002:

 

In windy areas, where heavier bullets

aid accurate shooting, or if applicants wish to

use one rifle for shooting both deer and foxes

they may choose a rifle in 6mm (.243/.244) or

6.5mm (.264) calibre.

 

My advise is to get a 6.5x55. It will do the business on pretty much anything you'll want to shoot in the UK.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Gully

[malkiserow]

I've heard a lot of good reviews on the 6.5 55 but one chap I spoke with this week told me he used to have one and got rid after it took him 4 shots intotal on a Red stag. He also seemed to be saying there is a delay in the round engaging with the rifleing? Can anyone shed any light on this comment. BTW the chap is a very experienced shot and ex police. He now uses a .25 06 and a .243.

[Harnser]

I dont know what he means by a delay in the bullet entering the rifling . How would you know and if it did happen. If it did happen then the gun would blow up as it would act as an obstruction . Never heard of that one before .

Harnser .

[malkiserow]

I'll quiz him some more. Is there a lead in to the twist?

[kent]

My dear friend , I have loaded just about every 30 cal bullet for my .308 and have had great success with all of them on different species of deer and foxes . I now only load 150 grain bullets to shoot deer and foxes . simply because the 150 grain bullet is one size to fit all . If I can group in a 4 inch circle at 100 yards then I have enough accuracy to kill deer cleanly . I can assure you that I can do a lot better than that with any bullet that I have loaded in my trusty M77 ruger . Including 100 grain and 240 grain .

Harnser .

Then you either have a wonder gun or low standards as one twist rate cannot stabilise all these bullets well 100-240 grain. Few would consider 4" groups as useable this is a low standard intended by DSC1 for total novices and those using open sights

[Dunkield]

He also seemed to be saying there is a delay in the round engaging with the rifleing?

Either, ask him how long it takes something is travelling at 2500 feet/second takes to cover 0.1 of an inch is, or do something different - there is no easy way to say this, you seem to attract weirdo's :o

[al4x]

4 shots on the stag were his fault for not making sure the gun was shooting properly to start with,

[malkiserow]

Either, ask him how long it takes something is travelling at 2500 feet/second takes to cover 0.1 of an inch is, or do something different - there is no easy way to say this, you seem to attract weirdo's :o

 

He is a member here but I've not met him yet as it was a phone call. I suspect he might keep a low profile now!

[Dunkield]

Opps. Well let's just say it is a 'slow' round and it burns a 'slow' powder - but it isn't exactly black powder....

I have shot quite a few hinds with mine and a few boar, I have seen plenty more of both shot with 6.5's - I certainly wouldn't worry about it's knock down capability.