E-coller

[robc89]

So my Lab has been coming on nicely and hes really keen.

 

Couple of problems now beginning to bug me:

 

If we see any other dog at all he really wants to go sniff it and will wine as soon as he see's one and start to yelp!

 

If we are shooting he will wine and yelp if he see's something he wants to retrieve!

 

Lastly the worst problem, if i am working him under 40 yards he pays attention but if he is out past that he will pay no attention to whistle and with out going after him i have no way of getting his attention! his nose is down and hes gone! I blow the whistle a couple of times and if he doesnt respond i give up on the whistle as i dont want him thinking the whistle means just carry on.

 

Iv a feeling the top problem is the result of me not socialising him enough.

 

But the last two problems, is this something that an e-coller may help with especially with shooting days satrting to approach i cant be having this wining and yelping.

 

Any thoughts appreciated

[al4x]

I doubt it'll stop the whining and may make other guns want to beat you if you zap a dog sitting next to you

 

however the lack of control at distance it will probably stop immediately but you have to be very careful not to get too reliant on it, its a training tool much like a long lead and can help you out an awful lot but you need to research using one as much as possible before hand

[fortune82]

I had a similar problem with my Cocker running off. After going to a professional trainer and lots of stop whistle drills on the long line it still was not cured. Eventually I bought an E-collar and within 3 zapps problem solved.

[wymberley]

I had a similar problem with my Cocker running off. After going to a professional trainer and lots of stop whistle drills on the long line it still was not cured. Eventually I bought an E-collar and within 3 zapps problem solved.

Please bear in mind this is my first gun dog.

Yep, I'm with Fortune. I thought I may have picked a winner (luck, no judgement) when at three months and with no training other than domestic, I was superbly presented with 2 rabbits that my ESS bitch had caught. However, she was extremely wilful and the farmer who'd trained a few dogs in his time warned me that I may have problems. Chasing off after a deer and coming back ripped to shreds by barbed wire is a problem. As Al4x says, becoming reliant on the collar is also a problem. All you have to do under these circumstances, is to decide which is the greater.

I felt forced to get one and picked a version which sounds off prior to delivering the zapp. It worked as F described. Now if there is a problem - breaking from the "sit" at a distance when I throw the dummy is one - I may fit the collar with the terminals removed and the sound is enough to do the job. At the moment she's grounded after the big snip and if all goes well when we re-start, the collar will be binned.

Cheers

[al4x]

don't ever bin the collar, you never know if a refresher course will be needed. If you use like an extra long lead they help enormously on dogs that go deaf when they hit scent. I can safely say mine has saved mine as I'm sure she would have ended up on a road or permanently on the lead without, now we're coming on nicely

[fortune82]

Im with ALX4, dont bin it. My dog was perfect 90% of the time but that 10% meant I was unable to work him as he would / could have cleared off into the next drive. The final straw was when he went off after a rabbit and was gone for near on an hour.

 

Now I can work him without the collar fine although this season, seeing as its his first, I think he will have it on every time!

Edited September 3, 2010 by fortune82

[wymberley]

Im with ALX4, dont bin it. My dog was perfect 90% of the time but that 10% meant I was unable to work him as he would / could have cleared off into the next drive. The final straw was when he went off after a rabbit and was gone for near on an hour.

 

Now I can work him without the collar fine although this season, seeing as its his first, I think he will have it on every time!

Thanks, guys

[WGD]

How old's the dog rob? The whining is due to the dogs excited state and a collar won't change that, I don't think it will work.

 

It may help with the problem of long range deafness, but I have to ask why your dog would be working at over 40 yards anyway? HPR or pointer fair enough, but lab? Hunting he should be closer than that and retrieving his mind should be on the retrieve, not bogging off and hunting for himself, that's a training and conditioning issue.

[fortune82]

I would agree with WGD. The e-collar will only sort out the running off. 40 yards does seem pretty far out. Had mine out today and he flushed a covey of english at what I thought was too far out (my fault). He sat and then i paced the distance at 21 yards. 40 is already nearly out of range.

 

I have only used the collar for running off, everything else has to be through traditional methods as far as I can see.

[kent]

Wouldn't bother using the collar for distant control on the stop thats not what it is good for, were they excell is in speed of correction and stock worrying issues. Sounds to me like you have an exited hunter if you use the collar to enforse the stop i feel your dog will just learn to run through it. As regards the wining etc the collar might be usefull in speed of correction for this fault during training and leaning NO means NO! To explain dog in kennel or tethered at distance starts wining or barking Call NO and intantly press on the correction then softly say "quiet" and a tiny bit of praise as he is going to be silent at that stage, repete as required and the dog will associate a firm NO with correction and quiet spoken softly as an instuction with posible reward. In the shooting field a firm NO and a soft quiet will then get you the reults you then seek without the collar

Don't let the dog associate the collar itself with this type of correction by familarisation and if your gonna use one try it on yourself 1st each time you turn it on, if you won't do it to yourself then dont do it to the dog. If the dog learns collar = corrective power you have lost 90% of its effectiveness and you will end up with a dog that will not behave without it or the dummy collar so read the instuctions very carefully

[Elby]

The only reason you'll will ever have to use a collar is if you haven't spent enough time on the basic training.

Retrieving rabbits at 3 months?

Go back to the beginning and start again, remember dogs must have a puppyhood the same way you had a childhood.

Don't expect too much too soon

[wymberley]

The only reason you'll will ever have to use a collar is if you haven't spent enough time on the basic training.

Retrieving rabbits at 3 months?

Go back to the beginning and start again, remember dogs must have a puppyhood the same way you had a childhood.

Don't expect too much too soon

Hello, mate. Don't think you read my post. She was enjoying her puppyhood running around the fields and on two occasions with, as clearly stated, no training other that the domestic, presented me in classic style with two rabbits that she'd caught. OK, what I didn't think necessary to add, was that both were suffering from limited vision for the usual reason otherwise she'd have had no chance.

[kent]

Hello, mate. Don't think you read my post. She was enjoying her puppyhood running around the fields and on two occasions with, as clearly stated, no training other that the domestic, presented me in classic style with two rabbits that she'd caught. OK, what I didn't think necessary to add, was that both were suffering from limited vision for the usual reason otherwise she'd have had no chance.

 

Sorry, were you using an e-collar on a three month old pup? If i understood that correctly and you were that is just so WRONG and gives fuel to these tools, that despite the views of some who have never used or needed to use one can be near essential with some dogs for certain things

[Elby]

Hello, mate. Don't think you read my post. She was enjoying her puppyhood running around the fields and on two occasions with, as clearly stated, no training other that the domestic, presented me in classic style with two rabbits that she'd caught. OK, what I didn't think necessary to add, was that both were suffering from limited vision for the usual reason otherwise she'd have had no chance.

Ok, sorry wasn't having a go.

Tbh though at that age you shouldn't even be letting the dog run around where there are rabbits, it's asking for trouble.

On the childhood theme, put a jar of sweets in front of a 3 year old, leave the room and see what happens.

[wymberley]

Sorry, were you using an e-collar on a three month old pup? If i understood that correctly and you were that is just so WRONG and gives fuel to these tools, that despite the views of some who have never used or needed to use one can be near essential with some dogs for certain things

No, of course not. Although getting better she still had a mind of her own on occasion. She was about 9 months when I dropped the tailgate on the truck and turned to speak to the wife when a roe doe broke cover from behind a nearby pile of top soil. She was off in a flash and came back in a right mess. ******* barbed wire.. At this point, I realised that something a little drastic was necessary.

Cheers

[Elby]

No, of course not. Although getting better she still had a mind of her own on occasion. She was about 9 months when I dropped the tailgate on the truck and turned to speak to the wife when a roe doe broke cover from behind a nearby pile of top soil. She was off in a flash and came back in a right mess. ******* barbed wire.. At this point, I realised that something a little drastic was necessary.

Cheers

Nothing drastic needed, just manners.

Get the dog to sit and stay

Honestly I think you are expecting too much of such a young dog

[wymberley]

Nothing drastic needed, just manners.

Get the dog to sit and stay

Honestly I think you are expecting too much of such a young dog

Yep, its' that childhood thing again, but I got it sorted; took the vet's bill out of her pocket money.

[UKPoacher]

I think using an e-collar in the circumstances described might have profund long term negative effects on the dog. It might turn it into nervous wreck.

[kent]

I think using an e-collar in the circumstances described might have profund long term negative effects on the dog. It might turn it into nervous wreck.

If your worried about using one on the dog it doesn't need one anyway if you feel it will make it a nervous reck it's obviously not the right candidate for the collar

[UKPoacher]

So my Lab has been coming on nicely and hes really keen.

 

Couple of problems now beginning to bug me:

 

If we see any other dog at all he really wants to go sniff it and will wine as soon as he see's one and start to yelp!

 

If we are shooting he will wine and yelp if he see's something he wants to retrieve!

 

Lastly the worst problem, if i am working him under 40 yards he pays attention but if he is out past that he will pay no attention to whistle and with out going after him i have no way of getting his attention! his nose is down and hes gone! I blow the whistle a couple of times and if he doesnt respond i give up on the whistle as i dont want him thinking the whistle means just carry on.

 

Iv a feeling the top problem is the result of me not socialising him enough.

 

But the last two problems, is this something that an e-coller may help with especially with shooting days satrting to approach i cant be having this wining and yelping.

 

Any thoughts appreciated

 

If your worried about using one on the dog it doesn't need one anyway if you feel it will make it a nervous reck it's obviously not the right candidate for the collar

 

I take it you agree then that the OP shouldn't consider an e-collar in this case? Or are you getting me confused with the OP?

 

Anyway, I would try other methods of harnessing his enthusiasm rather than an e-collar. You need to understand the problem first, and a good trainer will explain this to you before offering advice. Every situation is different and only by seeing the dog oneself can an opinion be formed as sometimes people describe things differently to how others see it.

[WGD]

I'll say again, how old is the dog?

[robc89]

Sorry guys havent had time to reply. Thanks for the replies though!

 

The dog is 19 months now. I know he is a young dog and I am contemplating having a few 1 on 1 lessons with a gundog trainer.

 

The dog does work further than 40yards on the rare occasion he is sent for a blind retrieve, he carries on trying to find what he has been sent for but ignored all commands. This is where i try to stop him on the whistle and i suppose with more time he would learn. I was just wondering if the E coller would quicken this process.

 

With regards to the whining I thought I could use the E coller to shock the dog on the first sign of whining to show him that its not acceptable. I suppose this isnt really a good idea as you guys have touched on i should find a reason for this and not create a bigger problem later on in life.

 

I suppose I should hold my hands up and say I am looking for a quick fix to something probably just needs time.

 

Is the whining just an over excitment? Does anyone have any tips to stop this?

 

Cheers

Rob

[UKPoacher]

The whining is most likely over excitement caused by anticipation and zapping him would do far kore harm than good IMO. You need to direct the energy rather than try and cap it.

[kent]

I think using an e-collar in the circumstances described might have profund long term negative effects on the dog. It might turn it into nervous wreck.

 

 

Sorry i thought you were contemplating using one but was worried about turning "your dog into a bag of nerves" IF anyone has this consern they have the wrong candidate for the collar and it would be mis use IMO the best candidates are the hooligans the sort that make great dogs in the field but test you constantly and fear little shrugging off even heavy correction when it suits them. E-collars are not harsh but they do allow you to get the correction in real fast before things escalate. If you have owned one of these dogs you will know what i mean if not you might view anyone who uses the e-collar as cruel.

[al4x]

personally I think they sound far worse than they actually are, add to that if you're worried about the effect then you probably are the right kind of person to be using one. Try it on your leg they are unpleasant but the intention is not repeated use its to cure specific problems and if the dog has an ounce of intelligence it learns fast to obey. I've shocked my dog only a handull of times she knows what it is about and it changed her for the better straight away