Pigeons in Serious Decline !!

[Fisherman Mike]

'The impact on birds has been estimated from a "citizen science" project in which more than 700 people have been monitoring bird numbers in their gardens since 2003.'

 

Says it all really!

 

The BTO, RSPB etc but NOT I note GWCT all report increasing numbers of Woodpigeon only these organisations tend to rely heavily on people seeing things from the comfort of their own back windows on their heavily fed bird tables. All of which helps to swell their respective coffers with membership money and sales of bird food!

 

For serious, reliable and factual information you can't beat genuine fieldwork.

 

Thats not strictly true Highlander the BBS is a well organised national survey incorporating 3500 recorders. It has in recent years first alerted us to serious declines in House Sparrow, Starling, Grey Partridge, Lapwing, Snipe, Yellow Wagtail, Cuckoo, Golden Plover and Mallard to name but a few all of which have now been recognised by the Public as in serious in decline.

The survey forms the backbone of information available to Government Conservation and Environmental bodies and carries great creedance with these organisations.

[Fisherman Mike]

I'm not going to tell you the size of the roach I caught on the brue down this way - even if you did believe it, you'd hate me too

 

 

I always liked the look of the BRUE is it accessible to day anglers. I often stop off at Bruton on my way down to Wincanton races and have a couple of beers.

 

3lb plus ? yes I hate you too....mucho.

[Blackbart]

Am i reading the survey wrong ?

 

Pigeon numbers were up by 35% from 1995 and this year they are down 7% from last !

 

So they are still up by 28% from 1995 ?

 

 

28% seems like a huge increase given we are talking about a bird that is present in millions...

[yickdaz]

we should have a simple yes no survey on pigeonwatch with a do you think numbers are in decline with a chart of counties..southwest.. northwest.. midlands..east anglia and so on;just a thought

[Fisherman Mike]

Am i reading the survey wrong ?

 

Pigeon numbers were up by 35% from 1995 and this year they are down 7% from last !

 

So they are still up by 28% from 1995 ?

 

 

28% seems like a huge increase given we are talking about a bird that is present in millions...

 

Yes its recording a trend in Breeding numbers but fundamentally we dont actually know how many are out there and how many are being shot. The population might for arguments sake say have been 20 million in 2008 reducing to 18.6million in 2009. Of that 18.6 million we might have shot 5 million. If the recovery and breeding success in the next 5 years follows the expected trend and we are still shooting proportionally in the same numbers it wont be long before Pigeon numbers will be reduced significantly.

 

The BBS has flagged up the 7% decrease as "significant" and will no doubt eagerly await the full results of this years survey. It may be that numbers have increased !

 

I must admit there doesnt seem to be too much of a population drop in my area but that might be because me and Blunderbus are such **** shots. ( Well me anyway)

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

we should have a simple yes no survey on pigeonwatch with a do you think numbers are in decline with a chart of counties..southwest.. northwest.. midlands..east anglia and so on;just a thought

 

I think thats a good idear but the only real problem is the pork pies shooters tell like I shoot 700 in two days when it didnt not occur .

 

I look at sporting pictures for the geninue guys like yourself who tells the truth not some of the waffle claimed on this forum and others and make my judgment on bird number from them.

 

Regards OTH

[inshallah]

'The impact on birds has been estimated from a "citizen science" project in which more than 700 people have been monitoring bird numbers in their gardens since 2003.'

 

Says it all really!

 

The BTO, RSPB etc but NOT I note GWCT all report increasing numbers of Woodpigeon only these organisations tend to rely heavily on people seeing things from the comfort of their own back windows on their heavily fed bird tables. All of which helps to swell their respective coffers with membership money and sales of bird food!

 

For serious, reliable and factual information you can't beat genuine fieldwork.

 

I think there might be something in this. I'm not saying that teh BTO/RSPB surveys are any less accurate than the GWCT, it's just that these 'general public' surveys concentrate on people's gardens. I had an airgun in the early 80s and I used to go pigeon shooting with my mate on his Dad's chicken farm.. I'd dream of getting a pigeon to shoot in my parent's garden, but never had one close enough to shoot, over a period of a cople of years. Now when I go and visit Mum, I could shoot half a dozen a day with an airgun, easy. (I don't). Woodpigeon, like many other animals, are just coming into gardens more, so it's not surprising that the RSPB surveys bias towards an increase. Where I live now on the canal in West London, we're practically knee deep in the things.

[Fisherman Mike]

we should have a simple yes no survey on pigeonwatch with a do you think numbers are in decline with a chart of counties..southwest.. northwest.. midlands..east anglia and so on;just a thought

 

 

That would be a very good idea and might provide interesting results. Can anyone set it up....I wouldnt know where to start. if we did it regionally each years we could see the patterns of movement for ourselves.

[proTOM1]

That would be a very good idea and might provide interesting results. Can anyone set it up....I wouldnt know where to start. if we did it regionally each years we could see the patterns of movement for ourselves.

 

 

[yickdaz]

a member started how many are shot on talk from the field which is on going; and its easy to do the same... but to structure it with a chart and regions not so easy wonder what the moderaters could come up with :look:

[Ozzy Fudd]

Ozzy

 

Not advocating no pigeon shooting at all, NOT even a closed season, just some restraint. Of late we have many people, shooting journalists, shooting organisations etc promoting pigeon shooting to all and everyone in a BIG way. You’ve only to look at the trend in some of the shooting mags to see the excitement created by LARGE bags of woodies. We have no reliable information, certainly you can’t take the views of PWers :look: , about pigeon numbers and we've had no serious studies done since Dr Murton way back in the 1950s so at present it’s all guesswork which is not the way to determine anything.

 

I am well aware that many people consider woody to be an out and out pest not worthy of our respect to be killed at every opportunity but that is where I must disagree. Woody is IMO one of the finest sporting birds and IS more than demanding of our respect. If we seek to ‘fill our boots’ and kill as many as possible each and every time we venture out we will without a doubt see a reduction in numbers quite apart from any seasonal variations in populations.

If you’re after big bags then either go clay shooting or game shooting, where incidentely both are more guaranteed than woody!

 

I blame such an attitude in part on clay shooters who then venture into the world of live quarry shooting. Having been taught to (competitively) kill each and every bird presented to them on a clay shoot they adopt the same policy on live quarry, game and wildfowl as well as pigeons. That coupled with the macho attitude of many shooters is not and should not be the way of the hunter.

 

i understand what youre saying, but dont agree with all of it it. i think (as someone else pointed out earlier) we need to remember not all areas have the same numbers of birds, so something that stands in your area may have no bearing on another. yes, pigeons are a challenging bird, and yes i believe everything we shoot deserves our respect, no matter if its a rat or a deer (in so much as i minimise suffering and try not to kill if i dont need/have to), but in my eyes pigeons are on the general licence to be shot as a pest, not as a game/sporting bird. if its the case where you need to clear as many out as possible because of this then imo theres nothing wrong with the attitude of killing everything that comes within range, but i do think that once you bring the numbers down to a manageable level you can be a bit more selective

 

i dont have much of a pigeon problem here (except ferals in barns) but one area i shoot was over run with rabbits this year, so we hit it hard and often for a couple of months and put a massive dent in the population. now its at the stage where the population is easily managed i can ease off on it; instead of trying to pick up 10/20 rabbits 2 or 3 evenings a week im happy enough taking a walk around it once every month or two, and maybe just taking 2 or 3 rabbits. thats why i keep saying im not taking sides in this argument - i cant pick between "leave them be vs kill them all" because i fall firmly on both sides of the divide

 

ps should be easy enough for someone to do a colour coded map showing which areas most pigeons are shot in by pw members :look:

[anser2]

In the light of increases over the past decade a 7% decline is nothing to be seriously worried about. But thats not to say it should be ignored. In many ways i am not surprised the summer of 2009 shopws a decline. It was a very poor summer compaired with recent years with a number of cool and wet spells in Eastern England ( cant talk for the remainder of the country ).

 

Having said this there has clearly been a big drop in numbers in my local area of N Norfolk since the cold weather last year. We had a week of deep snow when the birds would not have been able reach food on the ground . After a mild week we then had a prolonged cold reaching well into the spring with weeks of light snow cover in the first 2 months of the year. The rape became frosted and turned purple and the pigeons did not want to know it. Since March numbers have been very well down both in the early spring and during harvest time.

 

I suspect again we will find a drop in numbers when this springs breeding population is looked at , but we are know where near the position where any legal protection is needed. As for me I do not shoot wood pigeons between mid April and the end of June to at least give them a chance to get one brood off successfuly. I think many forget for every adult pigeon you shoot during the breeding season it probably results in 1-2 more deaths deaths as young starve in the nest or eggs chill. ( a adult can probably rear one chick , but as they have to produce " pigeon milk " its very doubtful if a single bird could rear both chicks.

 

 

So lets keep monitoring the population , but I can see nothing to be too concerned yet.

Edited September 11, 2010 by anser2

[henry d]

I`m not so sure about the reasons for dips in figures being due to one factor or another but may be due to several all together.

 

Archie, God bless him, tells a tale about the thin emaciated bodied woodpigeons he found during a bad winter in the `60`s (50`s ?) and the past winter was a bad one but I didn`t find any, a good few roe though. I have however found many emaciated birds during heavy crops of beechmast, none more so than during 2002. They were all suffering from Trichonamosis(sp) and saddened me greatly.

 

Anyhoo, there are good numbers here and they still come into rotaries and ordinary patterns alike, so happy days. If push comes to shove I will do like I have done with Salmon fishing and STOP :look:

[anser2]

We had some birds in very poor condition last winter in Norfolk. I stoped shooting them for a month or so after the end of the deep snow.