Working up a load

[Redgum]

Being new to reloading I think I'm being a bit overcaucious getting from a 10% reduced to a load to what I'm happy with. Now I know its best to air on the side of safety but you can get through alot of ammunition going up gradually and I'm just wondering what approach experienced reloaders take. Just for an example it your loading a 243 cartridge using 80gr bullet and the max is stated as 45grains of powder and I start at 41.5grains is it best to go up in 0.5grains, 1grain or 1.5grains.

[magman]

I go up in .5 of a grain and then work from there

[harv]

i normally make to .5 for a new bullet wt starting approx 3 gns below recomended maximum and make 10 of each and see how they group,using the best groups i then reload more at .1 above / below the best which always tightens the group further, i normally find the nearer the maximim the better.after that i **** around with the oal aswell and no i dont get out much .

in my experience any gun regardless of spec or make will shoot sub moa with the correct load.

[Vince Green]

The best load is not always the max load. Some loads work really well below the max. pay attention to group size and you may easily find the group starts to open up again as you approach max. Its a harmonic and every rifle/ load combination is different.

[garyb]

I always look at the published load data, and choose a charge slap bang in the middle of Min & Max.

 

Other than that, I will always develop length before I play with the load.

[garyb]

There is also this method

 

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/

[Browning]

I usually load a single round in .5gn intervals until I begin to see pressure.

 

Then load batches of four in .5gn intervals working down from the max load that I found earlier.

 

After that fine tune in .2gn intervals and/or OAL as required.

[Redgum]

Thanks for all the good advice ,my Lee reloading 2nd edition states to go up in 0.5 grain steps, I suppose its down to experience and knowing your rifle at the end of the day. The .22lr is a good example of powder and accuracy in simplified terms, subs shoot accuratley but looping trajectory and hv's shoot flatter but less accurate ( I know you have the complication of moving through the sound barrier but just using as an example)

[kent]

Depends i like to find the limit as it lets me know how close i am running to it, but i do not generally want the very fastest. 0.5 grn is good but not when your right near the top IMO. All guns have slightly different limits and published data varies as to the max. Personally i use Quickload as my initail reference and the first rounds i fire are only for speed and presure then i set a lower max giving me a safe margin and search for the sweet load with that bullet / powder and all the variations. Be aware that at 100-150 yds very little difference will be seen in powder used and accuraccy, if you doubt this watch the benchresters throwing thier charges for 100 yds sometimes they are visibly different, yet they take care on getting the length spot on.

[Redgum]

What is the first sign of high pressure you look for kent, is it on the primer.

[garyb]

Hard bolt lift too.

[kent]

What is the first sign of high pressure you look for kent, is it on the primer.

 

Primers are very difficult to read but pierced or totally flattened out are not good, generally the case will fail to contract following firing creating a stiffer bolt lift, scrap this brass and don't fire another. Be aware of what you are doing and seek "hands on" advice from someone who realy knows if you are not sure as missing the signs can prove dangerous or fatal. I can bear no responsibility for the safety of anyone who tries my own ways but it is important to understand pressure signs as even with more tame loads things can go wrong rain or heat or over length etc can change a tame load to an over pressure one this is the sole reason i want to know how close i am to the max. Different reloading tables can give different info and different guns handle pressure differently so all home loaders should study pressure and use safe reloading practice at all times

[Redgum]

I always work on the side of safety and test my reloads on an very experienced friends range, so far I have found I am happy with loads before reaching max. As stated by Henry Lee in his manual, many start loads are the more accurate load and near max loads will only make the life of your gun shorter. So far I have never had any problems with extraction in anyway but its good to know what others do and think. I'm a long way from playing with bulllet seating depth and always check that AOL is precise to the data source with my digi verniers.

[garyb]

I'm going to start work on my .308Win load tonight.

 

My method will be firstly to check the published load data to find min / max charge and trim to length data for my Bullet, Powder and Brass combination.

 

With this information I will...

 

1 - Find the "lands" in the rifle using a Hornady OAL gauge.

 

2 - Fill each case with a sensible "middle" charge between min and max

 

3 - Make up 3 bullets at -5,-10,-15,-20,-25,-30, & -50 thou back from the lands

 

4 - Test fire them

 

5 - Play with the charge, should I need to - most of the time I don't bother unless it's for fast flat varminting.

[al4x]

I'm going to start work on my .308Win load tonight.

 

My method will be firstly to check the published load data to find min / max charge and trim to length data for my Bullet, Powder and Brass combination.

 

With this information I will...

 

1 - Find the "lands" in the rifle using a Hornady OAL gauge.

 

2 - Fill each case with a sensible "middle" charge between min and max

 

3 - Make up 3 bullets at -5,-10,-15,-20,-25,-30, & -50 thou back from the lands

 

4 - Test fire them

 

4.5- Wait for police to arrive due to the noise

 

5 - Play with the charge, should I need to - most of the time I don't bother unless it's for fast flat varminting.

 

 

modified for accuracy

[Redgum]

I'm going to start work on my .308Win load tonight.

 

My method will be firstly to check the published load data to find min / max charge and trim to length data for my Bullet, Powder and Brass combination.

 

With this information I will...

 

1 - Find the "lands" in the rifle using a Hornady OAL gauge.

 

2 - Fill each case with a sensible "middle" charge between min and max

 

3 - Make up 3 bullets at -5,-10,-15,-20,-25,-30, & -50 thou back from the lands

 

4 - Test fire them

 

5 - Play with the charge, should I need to - most of the time I don't bother unless it's for fast flat varminting.

 

So would it be fair to say that your altering the pressure and sonic barrel wave by altering distance to engagement to the lands rather than powder charge, is this more efficient than playing with powder load? Is your rifle standard or built for target shooting?

Edited September 15, 2010 by Redgum

[garyb]

All my rifles are factory rifles.

 

I was always told "length before load" and to be honest, all of mine will shoot tiny groups so something must be right.

[gixer1]

Well gents,

 

 

I don't reload at all (I have a friend that does though) and i have to say from reading this thread i have learned an awful lot of lingo....

 

so I thank you....I am even considering giving it a bash.

 

so to confirm -

 

1) Everything i need for reloading (apart from consumables) should be able to be bought from the optics warehouse for £200 or less? (is this a turret press as I was told these are a bit more user friendly?)

 

2) as a general rule you seem to buy the loading book that suits your kit - Lee if you bought Lee reloading and so on?

 

3) For those that are reloading what is the cost per round? obviously rounds can be bought at 59p each for me at the moment so I would be more looking for the accuracy and variety.

 

Can the component parts or some of them be mailed? (powder, heads, primers?) i have ALOT of once shot PPU brass so i guess this is a start!

 

Regards

 

Gixer

[Redgum]

The lee 'modern reloading book' does lend itself to the use of lee kit and the deluxe 4 hole turret is real user friendly and you do not have to keep changing dies as you would have to in a single stage press.

Have a chat to Opticswarehouse on their online web contact service, you can get their phone number from there as well.

As I get my brass for nowt I reckon I'm loading for 40p a round, and thats cusomised ammo for my gun. If my Rem 700 shot privis nicely I probably wouldnt have bothered but I'm so glad I did as its a real rewarding hobby.

You may have gathered from reading these posts that it can be as complexed as you want it to be, but you will use more ammo as you won't be able to wait to check out a new load and tweak it, and then check it again chasing perfection.

The priv brass (ppu) I hear is good for reloading though I'm still trying to wear out my federal stock before I get to the privis. You can have primers and powder sent via post but transport is expensive so get stock from gamefairs or local source. Expanding heads can not be sent via post so you will have to find a source for those. Do plenty of research and ask on here what are good loads for what you wand to use the 223 for then you can get yourself a tub of powder,primers and heads and get going. Some people love it, afew loathe it but its worth giving it a go,I'm glad I did.

[Redgum]

I'm going to start work on my .308Win load tonight.

 

My method will be firstly to check the published load data to find min / max charge and trim to length data for my Bullet, Powder and Brass combination.

 

With this information I will...

 

1 - Find the "lands" in the rifle using a Hornady OAL gauge.

 

2 - Fill each case with a sensible "middle" charge between min and max

 

3 - Make up 3 bullets at -5,-10,-15,-20,-25,-30, & -50 thou back from the lands

 

4 - Test fire them

 

5 - Play with the charge, should I need to - most of the time I don't bother unless it's for fast flat varminting.

 

What order do you fire them in, I'm quessing the ones furthest back. The AOL is a real interesting subject, I made my own gauge eg saw cut down one side of a resized and trimmed case neck so a head can fit firmly,push the head in a couple of ml and carefully chamber round and equally carefully removing it. I do this 3 times to make sure all the measurements are correct. If I want to use another bullet then I just push it in the case, if it gets a bit loose I just run it back through the bullet seating die, it tightens up the neck abit.

I'm just loading some sierra 85grain soft points and the the chambered AOL is 2.716inch, I have seated them as per the manual at 2.650inch so I may experiment with the depth on a middle load.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Redgum

[Vince Green]

Primers can be a very deceptive indicator of pressure. Some primers, Winchester for example are very soft and can look really flattened while others don't look too bad even though the pressure may be the same.

Modern rifles generate high pressures anyway and anyone who thinks they can tell the difference between a safe and an unsafe load from primers alone is either very experienced or over confident when it gets to that last little bit.

[garyb]

Redgum.

 

To be honest, I will fire the longer rounds first and work my way down the list.

 

With my 243 - the first group @ -5 thou, grouped under 1/2 inch - so I never bothered with the rest

 

There is a thread on here somewhere with a photo etc.

[al4x]

Primers can be a very deceptive indicator of pressure. Some primers, Winchester for example are very soft and can look really flattened while others don't look too bad even though the pressure may be the same.

Modern rifles generate high pressures anyway and anyone who thinks they can tell the difference between a safe and an unsafe load from primers alone is either very experienced or over confident when it gets to that last little bit.

 

 

yup we went through this a while back with someone suggesting someones primers were indicating pressure problems. Was interesting as my reloaded ones looked the same, but then looking further on so did my factory Norma, and factory Remington. I'm happier keeping the load within the guidance limits from the powder manufacturer and leaving it at that

[Redgum]

I can't see the advantage of making a load too hot for deer n fox, its seems high pressure doesnt lend itself to accuracy and long gun life, I just want a 200yd accurate round. And to be honest most lowland deer are shot with 100yds. I suppose its just a good idea to have the knowledge to notice pressure if your search for more accuracy tends to take you that way. Still, is a very interesting subject, just entering into loading some 20gram soft load (12gauge) using greendot for my son, just need the primers and I'm away.

[garyb]

Here's the result of my 243 load development... Never did alter the charge or length any further!

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...t&p=1119350