10gr. powder for 12g cartridges

[Pigeon_snIPer]

Hi All,

I've been wondering.

 

If we can take a 26Gr 12g cartridge (70mm) and reduce the powder by 1/2 or less or say 10g and reduce the wad and also the shots (No. 6 or 7 /12) to 1/2 of what it is - then can we take shots at very close ranges - say 5- 15 yards at snakes / other small rodents - will that still pack a good punch for those ranges and will the sound reduce.

 

Thank you

/S/

[MC]

It doesn't necessarily work like that,

 

You would need more wadding or a shorter case to take up the length and what exactly are you trying to achieve? A .410 or 9mm Garden gun is what you want.

[Pigeon_snIPer]

MC.

Thanks for the reply -

So 10 gr of powder - more wad - less shot and cut off the remaining cartridge length - is that what you are saying?

 

Just trying to achieve shorter ranges and lesser noise levels with a reduced 12g load.

/S/

[Guest cookoff013]

what are you trying to do? most powders in cartridges have been formulated with that payload for clean burn and power, pressure and velosity.

 

if you want to make a 12 or 10g shell, just make one. -simple.

[sitsinhedges]

Is it the silly season or something

[Pigeon_snIPer]

So it is possible then?

/S/

[SSS]

You do know you can buy subsonics cartridges dont you pal... That will save you somwme effort

[Pigeon_snIPer]

Subs are still pretty powerful and loud for such short ranges.

how about a 1/2 sub sonic :-)

/S/

[SSS]

You got a reloading press?

[Pigeon_snIPer]

These questions are just to learn more on how much of an universal gun the 12g is.

 

reloader, Yes

/S/

Edited September 20, 2010 by Pigeon_snIPer

[MC]

MC.

Thanks for the reply -

So 10 gr of powder - more wad - less shot and cut off the remaining cartridge length - is that what you are saying?

 

Just trying to achieve shorter ranges and lesser noise levels with a reduced 12g load.

/S/

 

 

No,

 

What I mean is to enable a crimp closure to work properly in a press you need a certain column height. If you put less powder in it will take up less space as will less shot. So to maintain the same column height to get a good crimp the space between your powder and the shot will need to be increased.

 

However you also need to ensure you generate enough pressure to push the contents out your barrel and not leave anything in there. There is enough power in a primer to open a cartridge but it will leave the wad etc in the barrel which is very dangerous.

 

In theory there is no reason why you should load say 10 grains of powder and 1/2 ounce of shot, I just don't see why you would want to.

[Pigeon_snIPer]

Hmm. thanks for that MC.

/S/

[njc110381]

You'd be better off with a set of reducers. Much easier and more reliable I'd have thought!

 

On a side note, has anyone ever drilled ports in a full length reducer so the barrel acts as a moderator? I can see a plan coming here!

[Floating Chamber]

Is it the silly season or something

 

'Hello St. Peter!'

[Pigeon_snIPer]

What is a reducer?

/S/

[njc110381]

A reducer is a metal cartridge type insert that allows you to fire smaller gauge cartridges through your gun. So you insert the reducer, then load say a .410 cartridge in it and then you can fire the .410 cartridge in your 12/20 bore etc.

 

Take a look at this link...

 

http://www.gaugemate.com/

 

[Floating Chamber]

A reducer is a metal cartridge type insert that allows you to fire smaller gauge cartridges through your gun. So you insert the reducer, then load say a .410 cartridge in it and then you can fire the .410 cartridge in your 12/20 bore etc.

 

 

Or these!

 

[Pigeon_snIPer]

Ah inserts to reduce the size - Lovely.

Thanks :-)

/S/

[casts_by_fly]

Hi All,

I've been wondering.

 

If we can take a 26Gr 12g cartridge (70mm) and reduce the powder by 1/2 or less or say 10g and reduce the wad and also the shots (No. 6 or 7 /12) to 1/2 of what it is - then can we take shots at very close ranges - say 5- 15 yards at snakes / other small rodents - will that still pack a good punch for those ranges and will the sound reduce.

 

Thank you

/S/

 

 

PS,

 

 

You're also confusing some things in your post. You say start from a 26 gr and reduce the powder by half to 10 g. First, you're using two different units. The expression "g" denotes grams, as in the metric weight. That is what shot weight is labeled in. The expression "gr" is grain weight. That is what powder is normally measured in. The gram loading printed on a box is how much shot is contained in the cartridge, not how much powder. The manufacturers don't list how much powder is there, but from reloading manuals you're not going to find any (or many) 2 3/4" cartridges with 26 grams of powder in them. Normally you're in the 17-22 gr range for a 12 ga with ~1 oz loads.

 

Guys in the US have tried doing similar things with a 12 ga for a while, though starting from scratch and not trying to modify a factory load. Basically, they are loading it down to the lower possible level for some reason (usual reasons are young shooter, small quarry, cheaper target shooting, or "because I can"). The biggest limitation is the crimp. You need a certain volume of 'stuff' in the cartridge to have a good crimp (regardless of type of crimp). Even with a very plastic-y wad and filler, it seems like 5/8 oz is about the realistic minimum load for a 12 (about 17 grams of shot). You still have to keep the pressure up though to make sure the load clears the barrel and doesn't leave a ton of residue. You can go subsonic, but you're not going to be that quiet because you still have a lot of volume of gas to get rid of regardless of what load you use in a 12 ga. As noted, a 410 with subs and a mod or a garden gun is what you want. Low natural loads of shot, small powder supply, limited volume of gas required.

 

If you're just trying to identify the limits of a 12 ga, then the lower limit is roughly 15-17 g of shot.

 

Thanks

Rick

[Guest cookoff013]

actually, you can go to 1/2oz in a 12gauge, but the cost would be really expensive. lots (and i mean lots) of fast burning powder would be used.

there are 1/2oz loads published.

 

not joking either.

[sitsinhedges]

actually, you can go to 1/2oz in a 12gauge, but the cost would be really expensive. lots (and i mean lots) of fast burning powder would be used.

there are 1/2oz loads published.

 

not joking either.

 

You can actually get .410 cartridges with just a few grams of very small shot in them too, a friend brought some back from Portugal or somewhere similar.

 

Never seen them here or know what they are supposed to be for though

[casts_by_fly]

cookoff,

 

good to know. I think I'd just buy a smaller gun at that point, but Ii'd use that logic from about 21g and down.

 

sitsinhedges,

 

Not sure how the laws work on them, but you can get shotshell rounds for various pistol cartridges like 22, 25, 38, 357, 44, etc. They make them for 45 LC. I know that a 45 LC and 410 shotgun cartridge are often used in some of the same guns. By that logic, I'd would guess that a 45 LC shotshell cartridge should fit in some 410 guns. I'd still rather have a real 410 round though since the shotshell round run out of steam (pattern) by about 15'. I have a few left for my 22 and you can put about 4 pellets in a soda can at 10-15'.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[Guest cookoff013]

pistol style shotshells (if thats what they are) are usually pants, just because the wad is ****, cartridge isnt designed for performance etc,

i just wouldnt use them.

 

alex.

stick with whats good.

[sitsinhedges]

cookoff,

 

good to know. I think I'd just buy a smaller gun at that point, but Ii'd use that logic from about 21g and down.

 

sitsinhedges,

 

Not sure how the laws work on them, but you can get shotshell rounds for various pistol cartridges like 22, 25, 38, 357, 44, etc. They make them for 45 LC. I know that a 45 LC and 410 shotgun cartridge are often used in some of the same guns. By that logic, I'd would guess that a 45 LC shotshell cartridge should fit in some 410 guns. I'd still rather have a real 410 round though since the shotshell round run out of steam (pattern) by about 15'. I have a few left for my 22 and you can put about 4 pellets in a soda can at 10-15'.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

The shells I referred to were .410 shells for 410s not pistol shells

[fortune82]

Hmm. thanks for that MC.

/S/

 

It wouldnt work at all. A while back when I was younger and more stupid a mate and me cut the shot out of a cartridge then tried to just shoot out the wad. The result was a wad lodged in the barrel and a load of unburned powder up the barrel.

 

The crimp and weight of shot hold the load together just long enough to allow pressure to build allowing the powder to burn. Less shot = less pressure = less powder burning.