Beating & walk up

[cab09]

Just thought I'd ask for peoples opinions/ advice. I have a young labrador who is 19 months old. Training has gone quite well, he is steady, recalls, stops and directional commands are good too. He works well in training, will mark and hunts good for blinds etc. I am pleased with his progress and now feel he is ready for his first season in the field. He is the first dog I have owned/ trained and he is the only dog at home.

 

I originally expected to pick up on a local shoot with him aswell as be a peg dog for when I shoot driven game.

 

My problem is, at the shoot I am now a new member of, you stand one and walk/ beat one. However, when speaking to some experienced trainers they say putting a good dog on the beating line is a waste and will ruin him. Im not too sure what to do for best, can he not be a good all-rounder? What do they mean when they say the beating line will ruin a good dog? Does it mean he will become unsteady at the peg and I take it increase the drive to chase?? What would the experienced handlers out there do if they were in my position as I've put a lot of work in and obviously dont want to spoil a good dog?

 

Many thanks for your help.

CAB

[pegleg31]

listen to those who have told you.

 

keep him on a lead while your walking or put him away.as you'll be more concerned on the shooting than your dog he'll start to notice he can get away with things.

 

i'm sure there will be people who disagree,but if you want a good peg dog don't take him beating

[Blackbart]

People have different definitions of spoiling a dog.To some, a dog that doesnt sit next to you like a plank of wood until it is told to do something is a sign of a spoiled dog.

I would give it a go in the beating line and see how it gets on.They are all different,some are happy to plod along and put birds up here and there or belt around like their ***** on fire and others think it is a race to get to the end of the wood.You wont spoil it by giving it a day in the beating line.If it goes a bit nutts in the line then maybe that is not the place for it but you will never know till you give it a go.

[UKPoacher]

A dog is only ruined if you allow it to get away with it. Keep him close, if he looks like breaking recall him before it's too late and only let him work in front of you. Dog's can understand what is and what isn't allowed as long as you are consistent.

[Paul@Ribchester]

A very interesting post so far, I'm in exactly the same position.......

[WGD]

With a young lab, expected to be used almost exclusively for picking up, be that as a picker up or from a peg, personally I would not use him for hunting in the line until he has more experience on game. Walking him at heel whilst you walk in the line is good discipline for him though, don't be pressured into letting him hunt if you're not happy to. The dog's character and stage of training will have a lot to do with how he reacts to the huge amount of scent and activity in the line and really only you can judge that.

[al4x]

can you do any picking up on another shoot? As WGD says I would try and get him out in a situation where you are only thinking of working him to start with and go from there. Even if it means he stays at home on the other days, if you do take him treat it as training and work him on birds only under strict control and not far from you. Has he been out doing any dogging in or had any experience on live game?

[cab09]

Thanks everyone for your help/ comments. I think initially I will try and keep him at heel for the first few outings as there will be a lot of new things to cope with (other dogs, different people, firing, other dog whistles etc) just to see how he copes and behaves/ reacts.

 

He hasnt been out on warm game yet or done any dogging in. I have done a few cold game retieves though. Just not sure how this will go down with other guns when I say my dog isnt beating! I might see how he goes and after a few outings I might then work him in front of me but keep him tight......still not sure though.

 

I originally got a dog for me and the shooting I do and wont ever be trialling him, but after all the work I've put in its hard to know what to do for the best. I want him out with me as often as I can. At the end of the day my shooting will involve driven game, walked-up/ beating and picking up on alternative weeks on a different shoot- I think it will be a case of watching him for any signs of disobedience as you say. It sounds easy in theory, but like one member said above it will be hard whilst im concentrating on my shooting. Hopefully, by doing alternative weeks picking up only it will keep him in line....who knows

Thanks again

[UKPoacher]

People don't give their dogs enough credit for knowing what they can and can't do IMO.

 

For instance, this week my springer has walked and sat behind me while air rifle shooting. Retrieved pigeons and squirrels. Marked hidden squirrels. Ran around public woods chasing everything in sight. Walked off leash at heel through a game crop alive with pheasants without a problem, and I've just picked her up from my wife's work where she's spent the afternoon under her desk. On Saturday she'll be in the beating line - under control, and on Thursday she'll be behind my mate picking up. In between she'll be with us in the Lakes on a walking trip and staying in the hotel bedroom.

 

Give the dog a chance. Walk him at heel initially then let him go a little way ahead and bring him back if he looks like breaking.

[gottsy boy]

A very interesting post so far, I'm in exactly the same position.......

i am also in same position, my shoot is a walk one stand one and was hoping to take my bitch maisy next year she will be 2.

[al4x]

I'll seecond that UK poacher its that moment of having confidence in your dog that is very hard to do on a formal shoot day. My gwp is just starting her first proper season beating and I'm relieved so far at how its gone. Very steady in cover when out of sight and has been awesome just standing on point when big flushes were taking off round her. Retrieved a few very nicely which is always a relief with a pointer. Only hickup was she did pick a hare that sat tight but hey one of the guns hadn't had jugged hare in years so he was grateful at a lead free one. Sometimes they surprise you and so far mine has this year

[pegleg31]

With a young lab, expected to be used almost exclusively for picking up, be that as a picker up or from a peg, personally I would not use him for hunting in the line until he has more experience on game. Walking him at heel whilst you walk in the line is good discipline for him though, don't be pressured into letting him hunt if you're not happy to. The dog's character and stage of training will have a lot to do with how he reacts to the huge amount of scent and activity in the line and really only you can judge that.

 

 

 

said it better than me,but that's what i was getting at.

 

if you want to ruin your dog listen to some of the other posts

 

i asked the the question to the person i go to for lesson's and his his response sided with what myself and WGD have said.

[UKPoacher]

 

said it better than me,but that's what i was getting at.

 

if you want to ruin your dog listen to some of the other posts

 

i asked the the question to the person i go to for lesson's and his his response sided with what myself and WGD have said.

 

That advice is only sound if you are intending using the dog exclusively for picking up as the OP originally intended. However, his plans have changed somewhat and so he is left with a dilemma of not using the dog to walk up or getting another dog to perform that task reserving his lab for the alternative drives as a peg dog. And, what does he do with the dog whilst he is taking his turn at walking up?

 

Under those circumstances I think it it better to take the dog and see how he goes.

[pegleg31]

That advice is only sound if you are intending using the dog exclusively for picking up as the OP originally intended. However, his plans have changed somewhat and so he is left with a dilemma of not using the dog to walk up or getting another dog to perform that task reserving his lab for the alternative drives as a peg dog. And, what does he do with the dog whilst he is taking his turn at walking up?

 

Under those circumstances I think it it better to take the dog and see how he goes.

 

 

either put him away or walk him on a lead to heel.until he's older and he can see how the dog react's and then take it from there.with a young dog letting it off will only ruin it.

 

but hey,what do i know

[al4x]

there is another course of action to take and a little late but get the dog out and walk it near to that shoot or others and while keeping control work it a bit and see how it goes. If your steadyness training has worked you may be surprised, you need to an extent to expose the dog to as many birds as possible so you end up with a sort of saturation and they aren't as exciting. Personally I wouldn't want a dog that just sat on peg and had every bit of hunting urge knocked out of it and it happens all the time, a nice middle ground is a dog that is interested while on peg but still will work for walked up game, won't win prizes but will make a far better shooting companion

[pegleg31]

there is another course of action to take and a little late but get the dog out and walk it near to that shoot or others and while keeping control work it a bit and see how it goes. If your steadyness training has worked you may be surprised, you need to an extent to expose the dog to as many birds as possible so you end up with a sort of saturation and they aren't as exciting. Personally I wouldn't want a dog that just sat on peg and had every bit of hunting urge knocked out of it and it happens all the time, a nice middle ground is a dog that is interested while on peg but still will work for walked up game, won't win prizes but will make a far better shooting companion

 

 

 

al4x,i agree with what your saying about having an allround dog.but build on the training it's alot to expect from a young dog.and a steady dog on the peg does'nt mean you've knocked all it's hunting ability out of it.what it means,is you have a well trained dog that does what YOU want it too and not what the dog wants to.

 

i must admit my lab is'nt the steadiest dog on the peg,but that's my fault i've been to soft on her.bu i'll garuantee she's got one of the bst noses i've seen for picking up.my cocker however will sit steady on the peg or happilly work the line,if i sat him in the middle of the drive he'd stay there until i called him

[manxman2]

A dog is only ruined if you allow it to get away with it. Keep him close, if he looks like breaking recall him before it's too late and only let him work in front of you. Dog's can understand what is and what isn't allowed as long as you are consistent.

 

THATS A KEEPER.

and good advice imo.

[WGD]

THATS A KEEPER.

and good advice imo.

 

I think we're splitting hairs TBH.

 

Nobody's saying don't let him off, but see how he reacts on lead or at heel first - it will give you a pretty good indication of whether he's going to blow a fuse or not. If he's calm and steady at heel, cast him off for a close hunt but make sure you can READ him and give him a corrective command before he needs it, not after by which time it may be too late.

[UKPoacher]

I think we're splitting hairs TBH.

 

Nobody's saying don't let him off, but see how he reacts on lead or at heel first - it will give you a pretty good indication of whether he's going to blow a fuse or not. If he's calm and steady at heel, cast him off for a close hunt but make sure you can READ him and give him a corrective command before he needs it, not after by which time it may be too late.

 

I agree. I think it's Pegleg who seems to be confusing the issue here banging on about ruining a young dog. Age has nothing to do with it. It's all about experience, ability and the handler's control over the dog. We've all seen pups that shame much older dogs. As long as the handler is on top of the job and controls the dog I don't see how you will ruin the dog for picking up especially when the situation is walk one - stand one.

[WGD]

I agree with Pegleg thought in the respect that, if you want a peg dog, beating will not help to engrain that behaviour.

 

However, the OP has said he is now in a walk and stand situation so the would be peg/picking up dog now has a wider role to fulfil if possible.