Dogs training and other FAQ from a gun dog newby!

[demonwolf444]

Basically its been hinted that as a christmass present from my parents i may be getting a spaniel,

first off, i dont know weather to get a full trained or not?

I really dont want to get a not trained and balls it up? as i have no experience

secondly, everyone i know who has a gun dog keeps them outside, does this have to be the case

also if it did live inside it would be shareing a room with a much older dog and cat? ( this makes me think that it should be kept seperate and outside? just we are reaching temps of -19 atm :S ?

if it was bought un trained, when should training begin

when should it be first introduced to gun fire

when should it be first taken shooting?

would borrowing an extremely experienced ( but blind ) dog help with training?

[low flyer]

Hi look up david lesitt dvds they are all you need. I was given same advice when I was in your position last year bwst advice ever given. Good luck

[Tom&Dexter]

Wow few questions there

 

With regards to getting one for christmas do you mean the one in 4 days or next year ?

if the sooner you seem to be leaving it a bit late.

 

if you get a part trained dog it may have been kenneled from a pup and depending on its age may be best to keep up with that.

it also will depend on weather that dog get on with your other pets

 

Training a pup starts from the day you pick it up and is a massive commitment and task, where as more specific gun dog training tends to start around the 6 months age .............

[demonwolf444]

noo not the one in 4 days, as in as a present - my parents will pay for the dog, obviously i will have to find and pick one when im ready, then they will pay for it, not On christmass just as a present hope that helps- sorry

[butcherboy]

Only you can decide if you want a pup or a trained dog.

 

A trained dog should come with all the advice you'll need (If not don't buy from them!!!)Getting a trained dog won't stop you messing up if you aren't also taught how to use the dog.

 

Inside or Outside ? Keeping filthy dogs outside suits me better but there isn't a great difference if you follow certain rules. It's easier to stop people messing up your dog when it's in the kennel.

 

Puppy training begins the minute you get it. Real training begins when the pup is ready to take it. Do it too soon & you can knock the drive out of it. (around 7-9mths)

 

Seeing what an experienced dog can do under the control of it's handler can help show what your aiming for. Borrowing one won't be of any use to your or the dog.

Edited December 22, 2010 by butcherboy

[demonwolf444]

thankyou butcher boy, very well answered (Y)

[pegleg31]

be careful buying a trained dog,just because it's trained does'nt mean it will stay trained .in my opinion you'd be better buying a pup or an older dog ready for training and spend the money you would be saving and having some 1-2-1 training as you will need teeaching as much if not more than the dog

[col48]

Hi

I differently would not buy a trained dog, as you have said you have no experience yourself.So you will knacker him/her up just as quick as you could a pup.But the trained dog will have cost a lot more.Another reason is a lot of trained dogs are sold because they have problems.Now they can be rectified but not in unexperienced hands.

 

Best advise i can give you is buy a few DVDs from puppy training right through to advanced training. and watch watch and watch some more,you can not drill it in enough as you do not train dogs you train the owner,if the owner is trained correctly then your pup will have no problems at all.

 

My dogs stay in the house in the day but go down the yard at night. (works for me) wile training it is my belief that the dog does better when they are kept outside especially if you have kids in the house.(if you have kids in the house then you will have to train the kids what they can and can not do.like throwing a ball for the dog and chasing the dog.The dog will love this game and it is fun to watch,but I'm afraid this will lead to a nightmare when you start your retrieving work.) thats just one reason there are plenty to think about.

what you have is a piece of clay and you need to mold her/him in to the dog you need.

 

if you have a friend who has trained his own dog then this would help a lot. but don't let me put you off as it is very very rewarding and not that difficult to train a nice working dog,you just need the information on how to,and most of this is common sense,when you sit and think about it.But it does seem a bit donating when you first start but as i say if you get some good DVDs and watch them until you have all the info then you will not go far wrong.

 

ATB

Colin

[Rasher]

I differently would not buy a trained dog, as you have said you have no experience yourself.So you will knacker him/her up just as quick as you could a pup.But the trained dog will have cost a lot more.Another reason is a lot of trained dogs are sold because they have problems.Now they can be rectified but not in unexperienced hands

 

Not everyone has the time,inclination, knowledge or patience required to train a dog. Regardless of how many DVD's they might watch or friend with dogs that they might talk to.

They also might not want to have to wait the months that it takes to get the job done on an as and well training schedule.

 

Personally I say find yourself a good dog breeder/trainer that has a well founded long standing reputation for breeding good dogs and training good dogs. Get him to show you what he has available, how he works the dog and how he has trained the dog. Then get him to train you in those vital aspects of gundog ownership. It will be quicker, cheaper in the long run and far less haphazard. It will produce far more reliable and consistent results and both you and the chosen dog will be a lot happier.

 

By the time you've done your sums added in your time and other associated costs, you'll realise that you've come out ahead of the game. All you have to do is keep doing the right stuff as shown by the breeder/trainer. Who'll always be willing to you pointers and guidance anyway.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Rasher

[WGD]

Got to agree with Rasher

 

Buy a good dog, but make sure you are trained at being a good handler - a series of one to one lessons with a pro/experienced trainer will put you on the right track.

 

But if you fancy the challenge of pup go for it, both have their pros and cons but you sound keen to have a dog with you in the field so a trained dog could be a better bet than rushing a pup.

 

I also don't agree that many trained dogs are sold because they have faults, there are a huge number of reasons trained dogs are sold and yes, sometimes it is for the money they are worth. But any seller with an ounce of honesty in them will disclose a fault and you have to decide whether you can live with it, as a novice I wouldn't recommend taking on a dog with a fault, it will get worse, not better.

[col48]

each to there own.

But i have seen some very very good dogs ruined by such methods as the last 2 posters mention.

 

i would like to see some of these so called trained dogs and handlers.

 

a good trained gun dog trained to a decent standard would be £900 + then add that to you having to be trained well i think you can see where we are going.

 

training a dog is not time consuming 15 minutes a day will do the job.and if you have not got that time then have you got time to walk the dog every day?

 

 

anyway the advise was free so do with it as you please.

 

ATB

Colin

[WGD]

i would like to see some of these so called trained dogs and handlers.

 

Not sure what you mean Colin? What do you want to see?

 

I completely agree with your thoughts on price, £900 minimum (a decent pup is anything from £450 - £600). Personally if I was buying a trained dog I would be budgeting £2K, but budget wasn't mentioned by the OP.

[pegleg31]

colin,alot of trainers sell fully trained dog's because they don't have the flare to make it in the trialling world and have no other vice's what so ever.

 

i do however agree with you about training your own dog if you read my previous post

[Rasher]

each to there own.

But i have seen some very very good dogs ruined by such methods as the last 2 posters mention.

 

i would like to see some of these so called trained dogs and handlers.

 

a good trained gun dog trained to a decent standard would be £900 + then add that to you having to be trained well

 

training a dog is not time consuming 15 minutes a day will do the job.and if you have not got that time then have you got time to walk the dog every day?

 

 

anyway the advise was free so do with it as you please.

 

ATB

Colin

 

Col48

 

Unlike you I have seen more hashed up training jobs done by amatuers on what would have been first rate dogs, than I have ever seen where a first rate trainer has ruined a good dog. Perhaps you should get out and attend a few trials to see the top boys at their game and see exactly what they can achieve with a given dog.

 

You say a dog trained to a decent standard would cost £900. Push the costs of a few 1-2-1's. Thats excellent value for money, if you bother to work it out when compared to purchasing a pup, waiting 12 months before taking it out shooting, the vet cost, feed costs, registration cost,I think you can see where we are going.

 

You say it takes 15mins a day to train a dog to a reasonable standard. We all know thatis only true in the most basic and simplistic of ways. Take to day for instance. My lot were walked at 7-O0AM in the dark, they will get out again at 4-30 in the dark due to work and family taking up the daylight hours. I'd love to now how you would conduct a worthwhile and productive training session for a 8 month old ESS pup in the dark.

 

Free advise is worth what you pay for it. You take the value from the sense that it conveys.

[Rasher]

Not sure what you mean Colin? What do you want to see?

 

I completely agree with your thoughts on price, £900 minimum (a decent pup is anything from £450 - £600). Personally if I was buying a trained dog I would be budgeting £2K, but budget wasn't mentioned by the OP.

 

I suppose it all depends on what your definition of "trained to a decent standard" might be. :unsure:

 

Like you have said a decent well bred pup is going to run out at £400-£650. At £900 it doesn't leave much in the kitty for training, vets, feeding does it.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Rasher

[utectok]

My bitch has taken to an older dog and cat and family from kennels well a few puddles but cage training is the way to go for that. I think a kennelled dog is probably easier to keep on song training wise mine gets lots of attention and playing which distracts her from behaving in the field. Having said that she's ok shooting and fun to have around so I'm happy enough and since I'm not going to trial her it not vital she is a top dog.

[butcherboy]

I suppose it all depends on what your definition of "trained to a decent standard" might be. :unsure:

 

Like you have said a decent well bred pup is going to run out at £400-£650. At £900 it doesn't leave much in the kitty for training, vets, feeding does it.

 

 

Depends how big your kitty is :yp:

[Rasher]

Depends how big your kitty is :yp:

 

Look at it as an investment.

[col48]

A trained dog going to someone who has no idea on how to handle a dog is going to get ruined very very quick. And even with 1 2 1 training (and you would need a lot )And this is going to take up a lot of his time and a large part of his wagers. so your argument about not having time to train a dog does not stand up, as he will need to give loads of time up to be trained him self.

 

 

Far far better to train yourself, (after all if the owner is trained the dog will be anyway)

 

but go take this chaps advice and throw £2000 to £3000 away. NICE.

 

thats it for me on this one,

 

You say

look at it like an investment

. If he takes your advise then i hope he has loads to invest

 

Good luck with witch ever way you choose.

 

ATB

Colin.

[Rasher]

A trained dog going to someone who has no idea on how to handle a dog is going to get ruined very very quick. And even with 1 2 1 training (and you would need a lot )And this is going to take up a lot of his time and a large part of his wagers. so your argument about not having time to train a dog does not stand up, as he will need to give loads of time up to be trained him self.

 

That's your opinion Colin and your welcome to it. Like your £900 guessimate at the cost of a well trained dog, your comments show how very little you know on the subject matter.

 

Far far better to train yourself, (after all if the owner is trained the dog will be anyway)

 

If only it were true and it was that easy. We would all be Ian Openshaws or Billy Steels if it were. :lol:

 

A good professionally trained dog owned and handled responsibly and with respect is an asset not a liability.Unlike many "owner trained" curs that I have witnessed over the years. In the end you pays your money and you makes your choice. I'd rather have an investment than a liability.

 

Stick to the taxi driving Colin. Its what you know best.

[col48]

If only it were true and it was that easy. We would all be Ian Openshaws or Billy Steels if it were. :lol:

 

 

i will stick with Jack Iliffe thanks far far better IMHO

 

 

all ways a pleasure harry i see you are still a troll :yp:

 

ATB

Colin

[Rasher]

I see your reading of the Shooting Times does help.

 

Jack's good and been around the circuit for a number of years. A panel judge as well IIRC.

[col48]

I see your reading of the Shooting Times does help.

 

Jack's good and been around the circuit for a number of years. A panel judge as well IIRC.

 

No harry yet again you are wrong

 

I have known jack for a long time.

 

 

ATB

Colin

[Rasher]

No Harry here Colin :yp:

 

Well I suppose we all have to know somebody!

 

"Guess who I had in the back of my taxi?" is the cabbies mantra isn't it? :lol: