Scully Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Most obsessions are... Sweeping generalisation....typical of the rubbish spouted by an anti. 'still a bitter and unhealthy interest in handguns'.I find it amusing the way some shooters find their own guns perfectly acceptable,but not those of which they disapprove. :blink: I think this post was about handguns for target shooting,I haven't read any of the one concerning humane despatch.But while we're on,don't forget that YOU are perceived by many to be a threat to public safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I like the logical argument. I disagree and so I'm an anti. Anti what I don't know. If it's "anti handgun obsessed nut nuts" then yes, I am an anti all day long. Interestingly I "Googled" handgun obsessed. There were a host of Dunblane articles and a few more recent ones including a young Scottish lad that was buying gun parts over the internet and assembling them at home. I re-read the Dunblane ones and had a look at the Enquiry reports about Thomas Hamilton's conduct and approach to hand guns generally. Man oh man, whichever way you slice it or dice it he was morbidly obsessed with handguns. You have a look at some of the posts on here and tell me there aren't some on here who are morbidly obsessed with handguns. Do you expect me to fall in and say they just enjoy a different type of shooting sport from me and we should all stick together. Well no, some of them are plain crackers, and the more someone who has no exposure to livestock seeks to obtain a pistol for humane dispatch the more I know I am entitled to my view and not just "an anti" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Do you think it's a good idea people who just want a handgun applying for one on the basis of "humane dispatch" in circumstances where they have no livestock to humanely dispatch i.e. it's a sham. In no way should he have got the handgun for humane despatch! However banning them for target use under controlled conditions and still allowing them for humane despatch makes no sense..... FAC have always been about legitimate need. IF you have one you'll get one, thing is if he rented 200 acres and bought 200 sheep he would have probably got one! IF you really have an unhealthy obsession with guns become a gun smith/join the army or move to another country! I don't want a hand gun but would like to try shooting one, which i will hopefully do soon, if i really like it I'll do it again! From my point of view its about legitimate use vs useless legislation. Ryan, Hamilton and Bird were all unhinged but then so was Fred West..... I wonder how many FAC and SGC applications and renewals were singed by Harold Shipman? I would agree with Mung that I am anti of guns (all guns) being available to unstable or potentially unstable individuals (but we are all potentially unstable so am i an Anti? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I have to agree with the above posts if you have no need for handguns then you should not get them and the idea that because you stalk occasionally you need one is delusional I have mine for fallen stock I was granted 2 because I deal with a variety of situations both inside buildings and out and the variety of animals from fox,lambs/piglets to bullocks and horse all in we have nearly 4000 head on the estate I also spent some time with our hunt fallen stock service to learn the correct techniques as each animal differs in correct shot placement.The amount of ammo I use is monitored and it would soon show up if I where to use my guns for other than intended they are a tool for a specific job and I would question any ones suitability to hold a fac of any description if they thought they could play the system just to get a handgun for obviously less than honest and genuine reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) I have to agree with the above posts if you have no need for handguns then you should not get them and the idea that because you stalk occasionally you need one is delusional I have mine for fallen stock I was granted 2 because I deal with a variety of situations both inside buildings and out and the variety of animals from fox,lambs/piglets to bullocks and horse all in we have nearly 4000 head on the estate I also spent some time with our hunt fallen stock service to learn the correct techniques as each animal differs in correct shot placement.The amount of ammo I use is monitored and it would soon show up if I where to use my guns for other than intended they are a tool for a specific job and I would question any ones suitability to hold a fac of any description if they thought they could play the system just to get a handgun for obviously less than honest and genuine reasons. Fair do's entirely - you need one, you qualify for one and so you have and use one. You didn't first come on here with a fistful of technical questions and possible scenarios to blag a pistol out of your FEO. Also you haven't suggested carrying it for self defence and then fallen into a ramble about how an armed society is the way forward and how you would emigrate to the States tomorrow.... yeah emigrating to get access to handguns, that wouldn't be just a teensy bit mental at all I digress.... Edited February 23, 2011 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Fair do's entirely - you need one, you qualify for one and so you have and use one. You didn't first come on here with a fistful of technical questions and possible scenarios to blag a pistol out of your FEO. Also you haven't suggested carrying it for self defence and then fallen into a ramble about how an armed society is the way forward and how you would emigrate to the States tomorrow.... yeah emigrating to get access to handguns, that wouldn't be just a teensy bit mental at all I digress.... The idea of civilians carrying any weapon for self defence in the uk is pure fantasy/stupidity there is just no need and I feel it would be a slippery slope towards a more lawless society. I would hate to see us in the same situation as the USA any one who likes their ideals and way of life best had move over there but you sure as hell won't see me in the queue for the boat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I like the logical argument. I disagree and so I'm an anti. Anti what I don't know. If it's "anti handgun obsessed nut nuts" then yes, I am an anti all day long. Interestingly I "Googled" handgun obsessed. There were a host of Dunblane articles and a few more recent ones including a young Scottish lad that was buying gun parts over the internet and assembling them at home. I re-read the Dunblane ones and had a look at the Enquiry reports about Thomas Hamilton's conduct and approach to hand guns generally. Man oh man, whichever way you slice it or dice it he was morbidly obsessed with handguns. You have a look at some of the posts on here and tell me there aren't some on here who are morbidly obsessed with handguns. Do you expect me to fall in and say they just enjoy a different type of shooting sport from me and we should all stick together. Well no, some of them are plain crackers, and the more someone who has no exposure to livestock seeks to obtain a pistol for humane dispatch the more I know I am entitled to my view and not just "an anti" What a ramble! Where the hell has all that come from? This thread was about the chances of a repeal to the handgun laws,and you've taken it from unhealthy obsessions,humane despatch and now thomas hamilton! I agree with you about most of the above,but nutters don't just exclusively obsess about handguns.It's the sweeping generalisations I object to,it shows an arrogant and intolerant attitude worthy of any anti. As you're so obviously qualified to judge some of this forums members suitability to own firearms just by reading their posts(what a talent) maybe you should inform the relevant authorities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Well for a ramble, it appears to have met with some consensus... Lets leave it there. Besides, you can get as ancy and as prickly as you like, you ain't getting a handgun anytime soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) As a former secrtary and chairman of what was a big pistol club I broadly support the ban but not the way it was done. Handguns have always attracted weirdos, there is no point in saying otherwise. Thats not to say they were dangerous weirdos because they weren't but that was always the elephant in the room. The growth in the decade before the ban in practical pistol and police pistol brought loads of Walter Mitty types into the sport. Fantacists who liked to dress up and blaze away. Something was bound to happen. The only trouble was that when it did it took down the serious shooters as well. Edited February 23, 2011 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterzone2 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 On another note it does seam very out of order that. 1. People may own a handgun for humane dispatch yet are just as likely to fly of the handle as anyone else as are the police officer who carry 9mm Glocks. 2. why this whole **** about my shooting better than yours? Is it all not meant to be fun and enjoyable? 3. teenage kids are by fact getting them on the black market these are untrained kids with devices they don't know **** about (some of us were trained by "said" members of of the armed forces) Rhys Jones ring any bells??? I am for all types of shooting I have even tryed black powder and found it is not for me yet I will not say any where that it shouldn't have a place in shooting sports. LBPs and Black powder Pistols are still here and thus serve as a bit of a contradiction I am of the opinion that if the .22s had been left alone then like the semi auto and pump action rifle restriction the shooting community would have left it at that. Additional point like BASC NSRA NRA etc say We ALL need to stick together other wise like the coast line the antis will soon erode us away to nothing. I wonder how many ex pistol shooters (or any that lost their shooting sport) have turned anti out of spite? Remember that the pistol shooting was lost because the police refused to take Hamiltons' pistols off him (there are statements that he was a paedophile who was giving police info in exchange for the FAC for pistols) despite many including officers and FEOs in that police force took spets to take them but where stopped-even the home office was written to by the club he was kicked out of warning them. I personally don't like hunting again it ain't me how ever I won't object to it as 1 its some one else's enjoyment. 2 helps keep down the animal population. And if they did reinstate target shooting for any pistol I'd still quit this country as it is a **** hole even if its a place that won't allow the spas (new Zealand OZ and USA-imported) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 On another note it does seam very out of order that. 1. People may own a handgun for humane dispatch yet are just as likely to fly of the handle as anyone else as are the police officer who carry 9mm Glocks. 2. why this whole **** about my shooting better than yours? Is it all not meant to be fun and enjoyable? 3. teenage kids are by fact getting them on the black market these are untrained kids with devices they don't know **** about (some of us were trained by "said" members of of the armed forces) Rhys Jones ring any bells??? I am for all types of shooting I have even tryed black powder and found it is not for me yet I will not say any where that it shouldn't have a place in shooting sports. LBPs and Black powder Pistols are still here and thus serve as a bit of a contradiction I am of the opinion that if the .22s had been left alone then like the semi auto and pump action rifle restriction the shooting community would have left it at that. Additional point like BASC NSRA NRA etc say We ALL need to stick together other wise like the coast line the antis will soon erode us away to nothing. I wonder how many ex pistol shooters (or any that lost their shooting sport) have turned anti out of spite? Remember that the pistol shooting was lost because the police refused to take Hamiltons' pistols off him (there are statements that he was a paedophile who was giving police info in exchange for the FAC for pistols) despite many including officers and FEOs in that police force took spets to take them but where stopped-even the home office was written to by the club he was kicked out of warning them. I personally don't like hunting again it ain't me how ever I won't object to it as 1 its some one else's enjoyment. 2 helps keep down the animal population. And if they did reinstate target shooting for any pistol I'd still quit this country as it is a **** hole even if its a place that won't allow the spas (new Zealand OZ and USA-imported) Newzealand has loads of spas here is one of them http://www.polynesianspa.co.nz/ :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) As a former secrtary and chairman of what was a big pistol club I broadly support the ban but not the way it was done. Handguns have always attracted weirdos, there is no point in saying otherwise. Thats not to say they were dangerous weirdos because they weren't but that was always the elephant in the room. The growth in the decade before the ban in practical pistol and police pistol brought loads of Walter Mitty types into the sport. Fantacists who liked to dress up and blaze away. Something was bound to happen. The only trouble was that when it did it took down the serious shooters as well. I still have nightmares about some of the lads as turned up at pp comps wearing doc martins, combat trousers,one shot one kill T shirts, SWAT baseball caps on back to front and Oakley glasses then add a ankle holster,belt holster,small of the back holster, chest rig and a remmy 1100 all tooled up and arriving in the XR3I :o :o :o Edited February 23, 2011 by OCD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterzone2 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) OCD I was directly told by the new Zealand emigration service that pistol grip firearms are not for civilian use. And that the SPAS (that is Franchi S.P.A.S 12 shotgun) fell in to that line but my point was I'd quit the UK even if where I ended up I would only be allowed a O/U 12 bore. Edited February 23, 2011 by masterzone2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I have a friend who moved to OZ, just so he could enjoy his sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterzone2 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 RC45 My best mate from high school took a job on the west of OZ and has told me I can hold the SPAS12 there and pretty much anything else I want. But guns or no guns I'd rather be there than here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 OCD I was directly told by the new Zealand emigration service that pistol grip firearms are not for civilian use. And that the SPAS (that is Franchi S.P.A.S 12 shotgun) fell in to that line but my point was I'd quit the UK even if where I ended up I would only be allowed a O/U 12 bore. My mistake I thought you meant a spa like a health spa :blush: On a different note at what point did you ask the emigration service if you could have a franchie s.p.a.s and did they approve your application after it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterzone2 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 No my parents were looking to go and said there was a place for me If I wanted it With the amount of land they were looking to get they said we would need to control some of the pests that the country has and I would be allowed to use firearms on the land. I did ask about the SPAS 12 but was told about the pistol grip thing BUT did see a guy selling a GSG 5 on here and he said he could have taken it but the licence you need to have pistol grip guns cost more than the standard licence which you can legally hold a 7.62mm semi auto rifle on or various revolving pistols and some semi auto pistols. All swings and round abouts Sadly it didn't happen my mother didn't want to go when my son was born yet myself and my wife would have gone over when their probation time was up (that would be the 1st year they are there for they have to prove they don't need the state benefits). And then the money they have is not worth what it was so it all come to a stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I still have nightmares about some of the lads as turned up at pp comps wearing doc martins, combat trousers,one shot one kill T shirts, SWAT baseball caps on back to front and Oakley glasses then add a ankle holster,belt holster,small of the back holster, chest rig and a remmy 1100 all tooled up and arriving in the XR3I :o :o :o Oh give over.... that's just what you wore when doing PP/PolP... It made it feel more real... and it was the most practical clothing in a lot of cases. it didn't mean anyone wearing Americized sudo military kit was any less sensible or worthy than anyone else... That's like going to a driven shoot in jeans... you'll get noses turned up at you (and in some cases you'll be asked to leave..) but it doesn't mean you are any 'less' of a person or shooter... A lot has to do with sheer snobbery... A lot of the pure target shooters at our club, you know.. the ones who wore eye patches and blinkers with diopters in their glasses and special gloves etc.. etc... used to sneer and look down their noses at the PP / PolP guys because they thought they were better than them (have to admit, it tended to be the older guys who couldn't see the point in this new 'brash' discipline imported from the states) I have a very cool US Snipers t.shirt.. I wear it at the gym, playing squash and even sometimes have it on at the range... hardly makes me a wanabee Jack Bauer.. I also have a few VERY nice Beretta shirts which I wear quite a lot of the time as well as when I'm shooting... doesn't make me any more than I am, I just happen to like 'em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Oh give over.... that's just what you wore when doing PP/PolP... It made it feel more real... and it was the most practical clothing in a lot of cases. it didn't mean anyone wearing Americized sudo military kit was any less sensible or worthy than anyone else... That's like going to a driven shoot in jeans... you'll get noses turned up at you (and in some cases you'll be asked to leave..) but it doesn't mean you are any 'less' of a person or shooter... A lot has to do with sheer snobbery... A lot of the pure target shooters at our club, you know.. the ones who wore eye patches and blinkers with diopters in their glasses and special gloves etc.. etc... used to sneer and look down their noses at the PP / PolP guys because they thought they were better than them (have to admit, it tended to be the older guys who couldn't see the point in this new 'brash' discipline imported from the states) I have a very cool US Snipers t.shirt.. I wear it at the gym, playing squash and even sometimes have it on at the range... hardly makes me a wanabee Jack Bauer.. I also have a few VERY nice Beretta shirts which I wear quite a lot of the time as well as when I'm shooting... doesn't make me any more than I am, I just happen to like 'em PP was by far the best discipline and lots of guys dressed like I described I might even confess to the oakleys but the fact is when the public see a picture of a target shooter with eye patch and dioptre and then a pic of a pp competitor they see 2 very different ideals and one of them looks damned scary the other looks eccentric it isn't a reflection on the people there just the image and in this game public image is everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 PP was by far the best discipline and lots of guys dressed like I described I might even confess to the oakleys but the fact is when the public see a picture of a target shooter with eye patch and dioptre and then a pic of a pp competitor they see 2 very different ideals and one of them looks damned scary the other looks eccentric it isn't a reflection on the people there just the image and in this game public image is everything I think this is true of a lot of things imported from accross the pond... The British Psyche just can't deal with American imagery and fasions. We desparately want to be like them but don't like it when it arrives on our shores! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Handguns have always attracted weirdos, there is no point in saying otherwise. Thats not to say they were dangerous weirdos because they weren't but that was always the elephant in the room. Vince, spot on. The starting point of my 'ramble' was that there are still people who have an unhealthy and obsessive interest in handguns, notwithstanding that handguns are gone - they are long gone and they ain't coming back. 1. to suggest that handguns weren't in some sense "magnetic" to weirdos is ignoring Vince's elephant 2. these regular "hope for handguns" threads (and there's plenty of them) show a complete lack of self awareness. Does anyone think that semi automatic assault rifles and handguns are coming back? I'm not making a judgment on the rights and wrongs of why they got banned and how legitimate people who used and enjoyed them were affected, I am merely suggesting that if you think a repeal is just round the corner then you probably are delusional. 3. to suggest that it is intolerant or arrogant for any user on here to make a personal judgment on the approach displayed by other users of this forum to any subject (including that of handguns) is rubbish. We all do it - we all have a list in our mind of who on here we think are sound, funny, daft, clever, angry, dangerous and yes there's a section for "completely ******* mental". Now then, what if someone were to pop up all lathered up about handguns and start asking indirectly for guidance around the firearms regulations so as to place themselves in a position to obtain a handgun for humane dispatch and yet have no connection of any nature to livestock and actually are against the killing of animals. Do we open them with open arms and an open mind or do we call it how we see it? If we don't tow the blind "pro shooting" (all shooters are repressed and should stand together) line are we then just antis? Edited February 24, 2011 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 There you go again 'Let's leave it there'.You can't!Off you go again on about 'humane despatch'.I'd be careful,sounds like it's becoming an unhealthy obsession! Like you,I doubt very much the handgun ban will be repealed,but it doesn't worry me.Contrary to one of your other posts in this thread,I've already got my handguns.FEO thinks they're very 'nice'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 THAT....is a lovely piece of kit.Almost identical to what was once mine,now unfortunately long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Mungler you are right the chances of a repeal of any kind in this lifetime are slimmer than a slim thing in fact I should say it is more likely that Nessie will be found live and well in Loch Lomond before you see a pp comp in the uk using semi auto pistols. The government have enough on their plate and even if a repeal was tabled it would only be for Olympic style .22 single shot target pistols the general public don't want us to have semi auto rifles or handguns and that is just how it is.I can see the headlines in the papers now all of then outraged at the thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 The growth in the decade before the ban in practical pistol and police pistol brought loads of Walter Mitty types into the sport. Fantasists who liked to dress up and blaze away. As above...our clubs membership nearly tripled, mostly with the above types, this was questioned quite alot at the time. combat trousers,one shot one kill T shirts, then add a ankle holster,belt holster,small of the back holster, chest rig This is what started to become more common, it revealed the wrong picture in the Sport Centre that the club was held in, even to the point that the club started to receive letters of complaint. It outlined which direction it was all going when one member started bring his handgun to the club in a chest rig under his jacket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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