more bad news for air rifles?

[poontang]

 

The easiest way to 'solve' the 'problem' in my view would be to down the same route that airsoft guns are restricted. i.e. that you have to be an active member of a club or association. Unfortunately there thousands of people who don't live near airgun clubs so it would be unfair on those people. However if a tough choice had to be made, i know which option i'd be taking

 

Mark

 

Well if they don't have land to legally shoot on, or aren't a member of a club, WHY have an airgun in the first place?

[sitsinhedges]

Ok this may meet some sort of middle ground we don't want them on FAC as it would slow the system down

So what about allowing them only to those who have an FAC or SGC on an open system like the SGC?

 

you simply buy them on SGC/FAC and the only condition is you can't sell them to those with out fac/sgc

 

it may seam a bit of a hassle but whats the alternative???

Allow anyone to have them?

 

Yes, allow anyone to have them, just as we do now.

 

The whole point to many airgun users is that they don't have to go thru the rigmarole of a licensing regime to enjoy their property and hobbies thru airgunning.

 

Are you actually suggesting that someone who wanted an airgun would have to have a SGC or FAC first

[sitsinhedges]

Well if they don't have land to legally shoot on, or aren't a member of a club, WHY have an airgun in the first place?

 

Because they want to.

 

Why have golf clubs or a nice car or a fancy handbag. It's enjoying our possessions that makes life enjoyable and airguns aren't especially dangerous compared to other things that aren't subject to a licence.

 

 

You should think about moving to China

Edited March 3, 2011 by sitsinhedges

[poontang]

Because they want to.

 

Why have golf clubs or a nice car or a fancy handbag. It's enjoying our possessions that makes life enjoyable and airguns aren't especially dangerous compared to other things that aren't subject to a licence.

 

You should think about moving to China

 

Righto.

 

Perhaps you should think about moving to the planet Earth!

[sitsinhedges]

Righto.

 

Perhaps you should think about moving to the planet Earth!

 

Maybe you should sell any guns you have and join PETA, after disposing of all the sharp and heavy possessions that you have aquired in case someone gets hurt by them

[masterzone2]

My concept is simply that FAC/SGC holders should be allowed the sub 12 air rifles and sub 6 pistols

as they already are cleared and (in most cases) hold rifles and shotguns which are far more dangerous.

 

Even If it was how firearms were done back in 50s/60s (I knew a bloke who had guns back then you use to get you licence from the post office)

 

to be fair if it draws a line between those who use them correctly and tools like that Cole

then all the better and better a licence for air guns oppose to losing them FULL STOP.

[poontang]

Maybe you should sell any guns you have and join PETA, after disposing of all the sharp and heavy possessions that you have aquired in case someone gets hurt by them

 

That's ok, I'll keep my licensed guns thanks, and I'll use them on the land I have permission to shoot.

 

Of course if I was ever to lose all that land and had nowhere to shoot I would sell my guns.

There'd be no point in having them would there?

 

PETA? I love the way everyone's an anti on here if they don't conform to the norm

[Breastman]

Well if they don't have land to legally shoot on, or aren't a member of a club, WHY have an airgun in the first place?

 

Plinking? Enjoying using a gun without the massive responsibilities that come with a firearm? I know of at least 5 people who don't have a 'permission' and aren't members of a club that are avid airgun uses and collectors, who i have NO concerns about, and why would/should i? Because of the POTENTIAL harm they MIGHT do?? Sorry but i base risk on the numbers game and i know of at least 20 people who, in my opinion, are a massive risk to themselves and others and who use a potentially lethal object everyday when they drive to and from work.

 

Because they want to.

 

Sadly this concept is slowly but surely being bred out of us, despite it being the essence of being 'free' and it being specifically protected in legislation, some as recent as The Human Rights Act 1998!

 

Mark

[poontang]

Plinking? Enjoying using a gun without the massive responsibilities that come with a firearm?

 

 

 

Mark

 

So where do people 'plink'?

 

Personally I would say there's as much responsibility using an airgun as any other firearm. In the right (wrong) circumstances they're just as lethal.

[Acid House]

With millions in lofts sheds under stairs and on top of cupboards it is impossible to licence them, it will never work or be attempted in our life times.

 

So what do we do? A ban? Pistol crime has grown 200% since the ban so that wont work either.

 

The only tool we have is to make people aware of the consequences.

 

I would say 99% of none shooters I meet don’t have a clue what is legal regards air guns, they are more complicated than any other firearm. Yet any one of them could nip out at dinner time and pick one up for as little as £25.

 

Proposal 1

Advertising campaigned pointing out current law and sentencing.

 

2 Simple guides to ownership and law with every new air gun sold (I got a SGL with no knowledge of gun law or safety as far as my SLO was aware).

 

3 Ban any new air rifle under £100. Stop the impulse buy.

 

4 Prosecute to the full and publicise sentences for every *** who takes the pee.

 

5 More advertising, especially on tv. YOU WILL GET 5 YEARS IF YOU.........

 

Because air gun owners are not necessarily shooters we need to spell it out for them. Simplifying the regs would help as well. Some serious owners I know are still unsure of the many laws. You only have to go on a web site or two and see the regular questions asked like can I shoot in my garden and can I put two springs in a 1928 BSA.

 

EDUCATION………………….

[sitsinhedges]

So where do people 'plink'?

 

Personally I would say there's as much responsibility using an airgun as any other firearm. In the right (wrong) circumstances they're just as lethal.

 

In the right circumstances a balloon is lethal too. Maybe we should licence them.

[poontang]

In the right circumstances a balloon is lethal too. Maybe we should licence them.

 

What a well put together argument.

 

Well done

[Acid House]

So where do people 'plink'?

 

Personally I would say there's as much responsibility using an airgun as any other firearm. In the right (wrong) circumstances they're just as lethal.

 

10m Target, Olimpic sport

Bell target, very popular

HFT, 8m - 45m

FT, 8m - 50m

All very popular and all practiced for in hundreds of back gardens around the country every day of the year. I also enjoy getting out my old 1956 airsporter and happily clonking it down the garden now and then.

[poontang]

10m Target, Olimpic sport

Bell target, very popular

HFT, 8m - 45m

FT, 8m - 50m

All very popular and all practiced for in hundreds of back gardens around the country every day of the year. I also enjoy getting out my old 1956 airsporter and happily clonking it down the garden now and then.

 

I would class people who practice Olympic/FT disciplines as genuine shooters, and really I can't see how a licensing/registration system would be an issue for them.

 

Unfortunately, as you mentioned in an earlier post, a lot of airgun owners are not shooters. It's these people who generally cause the problems we see day after day.

[Acid House]

I would class people who practice Olympic/FT disciplines as genuine shooters, and really I can't see how a licensing/registration system would be an issue for them.

 

Unfortunately, as you mentioned in an earlier post, a lot of airgun owners are not shooters. It's these people who generally cause the problems we see day after day.

 

A licence wouldn’t be a problem for any of us but it isn’t going to happen.

 

You think the *** hanging out of a window shooting at pensioners is worried about a licence. He already knows its probably against the law. If on the other hand his two brain cells knew he was about to get five years for mucking about with a toy he found in the shed he may go out and mug someone instead and only risk an asbo.

[poontang]

A licence wouldn’t be a problem for any of us but it isn’t going to happen.

 

You think the *** hanging out of a window shooting at pensioners is worried about a licence. He already knows its probably against the law. If on the other hand his two brain cells knew he was about to get five years for mucking about with a toy he found in the shed he may go out and mug someone instead and only risk an asbo.

 

I believe it's a minimum 5 years for being in possession of a firearm without a licence now?

Probably why a lot of these idiots use airguns, they know they'll get a slap on the wrist if caught.

 

Of course if airguns were licenced...........

[Breastman]

...... It would make no difference?! Whats this correlation with sentencing and licensing?? If you believe harsher sentencing would reduce airgun crime then why not just suggest the penalties WHICH ALREADY EXIST are made harsher?!

 

5 years for failing to prevent an airgun getting into the possession of a minor rather than the £1000 fine it is now?

[Acid House]

I believe it's a minimum 5 years for being in possession of a firearm without a licence now?

Probably why a lot of these idiots use airguns, they know they'll get a slap on the wrist if caught.

 

Of course if airguns were licenced...........

 

Keep going

 

You are proving my point slowly

 

Any offence committed with or while in possession of an air gun is immediately classed as an armed offence and carries the same sentence as any other armed offence.

This will be classed as an absolute law and it is then up to your defence to give any mitigating circumstances to reduce your minimum 5 year sentence.

 

You see my point? Even a shooter as you has no idea of the laws pertaining to air guns. What chance has a scrote without some public education.

[poontang]

 

5 years for failing to prevent an airgun getting into the possession of a minor rather than the £1000 fine it is now?

 

I don't think it's got anything to do with age.

[poontang]

Keep going

 

You are proving my point slowly

 

Any offence committed with or while in possession of an air gun is immediately classed as an armed offence and carries the same sentence as any other armed offence.

This will be classed as an absolute law and it is then up to your defence to give any mitigating circumstances to reduce your minimum 5 year sentence.

 

You see my point? Even a shooter as you has no idea of the laws pertaining to air guns. What chance has a scrote without some public education.

 

Yes, I do know the law regarding airguns and sentencing.

 

Answer me this then. Two kids are nicked in Scotland for shooting 11 youngsters with airguns.

What do you expect their sentences will be?

What do you think their sentences would be if they'd used a shotgun?

In law, as you say, there is no difference in the offence committed BUT a lesser sentence will be handed down in the case of airgun misuse due to the fact that they're deemed to be 'less lethal'

The fact that they're deemed less lethal means they are far easier to obtain, yet we all know the damage they can do.

Edited March 3, 2011 by poontang

[Breastman]

I don't think you've got a clue what I'm talking about! Unwatch and good night!

[Acid House]

Yes, I do know the law regarding airguns and sentencing.

 

Answer me this then. Two kids are nicked in Scotland for shooting 11 youngsters with airguns.

What do you expect their sentences will be?

What do you think their sentences would be if they'd used a shotgun?

In law, as you say, there is no difference in the offence committed BUT a lesser sentence will be handed down in the case of airgun misuse due to the fact that they're deemed to be 'less lethal'

The fact that they're deemed less lethal means they are far easier to obtain, yet we all know the damage they can do.

 

Kids would walk in any case but an adult should swing either way with the new laws. It’s just up to the judiciary to use what they have. They are less lethal it’s a fact. An air gun fired into a crowd is 90% likely to hurt someone. A shotgun is 90% likely to kill.

If we can instil a bit of fear into the populous without scaring them so they demand an outright ban then things would improve vastly. 50 or 60 years ago we would have had a chance at licensing but as public money is tight it would cost hundreds of pounds to licence your air gun just to make it viable for any government so it just won’t happen. Better to educate the masses and those who chose not to heed, jump all over them.

 

Nipping on a factory car park on Sunday afternoon and plinking at tin cans =

 

Armed trespass...................minimum 5 years custodial

 

Adding a custom spring to gain 12,5 feet pounds =

 

Unlicensed firearm.................minimum 5 years custodial

 

Opening your gunbag to show a mate your rifle in the high street =

 

Reckless endangerment, armed trespass, possession of firearm in public place...minimum 5 years custodial

 

Keeping a pellet in the breech when transporting air gun =

 

In possession of a loaded firearm in a public place.............5 years

 

Shooting a swan down the canal =

 

Armed trespass, discharging a firearm in a public place and killing a protected animal............minimum 5 years custodial

 

Get the picture…………..If only they knew and if only the judges would start the good work.

[HW682]

The current "minimum" 5 year sentence is for possession of a section 5 firearm without a licence.

 

Some info here... http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/section_1_firearms_act/

 

Simple possession of Section 1 without licence at a magistrates court is 6 months or a fine or both. See Schedule 6 of Firearms act 1968 (pretty much right at the end).

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27

[Mungler]

My 2p - I got into shooting through a grandad who had a decent sized garden and an airgun.

 

Licensing just throws up hurdles and will over time restrict entry into "shooting" generally - both lawful and unlawful shooters. Indeed, I didn't wake up one day and think "I'll go shooting today for the first time", I reckon most people "fall" into shooting as a hobby.

 

I reckon the police should focus on catching people that misuse airguns and or knives - end of.

 

Licensing / banning etc doesn't really work anyway - a hardened thug who is happy to kill a donkey or shoot a passer by with an airgun isn't going to lose too much sleep over not having said airgun properly registered or held on a licence.

 

Ditto dangerous dogs - look at what a success that legislation was.....

Edited March 4, 2011 by Mungler

[Scully]

Here's another 2p(and that's all you're getting 'cos there's a recession on y'know).The poaching of Hares and deer is on the increase(black economy thrives in times of recession)and I just wondered.As most of these are poached with either shotgun or rifle,it would appear there is either a lot of illegally held guns around,or they are being shot illegally with legally held guns.Either way,it's not really an endorsement for the licensing system.

Acid House has put forward some really good points in his posts.and I think the TV ad'is an excellent idea.There use to be a lot of 'public information ad's' around at one time;something you don't see much of anymore.