Sco77w Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I'm a few days away from having my 3 year old ess bitch "covered" for the first time. if we are succsessful and she has a litter, I would want them docked and the dew claws removed. What is the general opinion on docking the pups and what length. She has a 3/4 dock which seems to be a decent compromise between working practicality and looks. I would hate it if people not want a 3/4 docked springer and I was stuck with the whole litter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 i've got two cockers, the bitch is half docked and the dog is 3/4 docked.personally i think the dog looks alot better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 2/3rds is about right IMO Where about in the country are you? Best to get a vet lined up to dock them prior to the mating, and if you're in Scotland you can't do it at all but I presume you know that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sco77w Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I'm in Worksop,Notts. My dog is registered with the local vet but he really didn't want me to breed from her and went on to lecture me on how many un-wanted dogs get put down every year, so I was thinking of changing vets. Ive been reccomended one a short drive away who I will be calling on Monday. Does anyone know what I should expect to pay (per pup) for docking, dew claws, chipping and anything else I should be having done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I'm in Worksop,Notts. My dog is registered with the local vet but he really didn't want me to breed from her and went on to lecture me on how many un-wanted dogs get put down every year, so I was thinking of changing vets. Ive been reccomended one a short drive away who I will be calling on Monday. Does anyone know what I should expect to pay (per pup) for docking, dew claws, chipping and anything else I should be having done? The vet i use is in mansfield i'm sure they dock and are very reasonable on price, plus they are very good vets Park Hall Stables, Park Hall Road, Mansfield, Nottinghamshire NG19 8QX 01623 620784 if not these in bolsover definately do 36A Market Pl Bolsover, Chesterfield, Derbyshire S44 6PN Get Directions 01246 823 353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom&Dexter Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Why did the vet, not want you to breed from her was it only for the reason given above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sco77w Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Pegleg31. Park Hall was the vets I was going to call, the have come reccomended by the woman at the local Kenals for the very same reasons you gave. Tom&Dexter. Yes the Vet is just dead against bringing more animals into the world when so many are being euthanized. I can see his point to a degree but you think he'd encourage it with it being his bread and butter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Tom&Dexter. Yes the Vet is just dead against bringing more animals into the world when so many are being euthanized. I can see his point to a degree but you think he'd encourage it with it being his bread and butter. He's not going to have a lot of vetting to do in 10 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Just be sure and leave enough back there to work as a rudder. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sco77w Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 "Just be sure and leave enough back there to work as a rudder." Lol, How true, I'm sure mine is half dog half duck. I'm keeping her away from our usual walk while she's in season as she makes a bee-line for the stinky stagnant water as soon as she can. Just the sort of place she could pick up an infection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 when i have mine done , i get them docked at 2/3 which i think is the best comprimise and it costs about £20 per pup for docking and dew claws. I dont bother about microchipping, but i tell the new owners that they have to do it before the pup is 3 months old. If i see one of my friends later i will take a pick of one of last years pups at about 5 months old to show tail length Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sco77w Posted March 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I've just called park hall vets and they won't dock the pups of new customers. I'll try someone else and be careful what I say when registering. Any other recommendations within the worksop / rotherham / mansfield area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom&Dexter Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 when i have mine done , i get them docked at 2/3 which i think is the best comprimise and it costs about £20 per pup for docking and dew claws. I dont bother about microchipping, but i tell the new owners that they have to do it before the pup is 3 months old. If i see one of my friends later i will take a pick of one of last years pups at about 5 months old to show tail length I thought part of the docking legislation was the dog must be chipped if legally docked ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I've just called park hall vets and they won't dock the pups of new customers. I'll try someone else and be careful what I say when registering. Any other recommendations within the worksop / rotherham / mansfield area? The vets in bolsover dock and it's not to far from worksop.who did you speak to at park hall?, try again and either ask for margaret or emma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdennis Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) I thought part of the docking legislation was the dog must be chipped if legally docked ? You have a duty as the breeder to arrange for the pups to be microchipped before they are 12 weeks old and each pup should have the relevant forms signed by the vet and the person who inserts the microchip (usually one and the same) Edited March 14, 2011 by busdennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I won't dock the puppies and chip later. The legislation allows it, but there is no way I can be certain that it's the same puppy I docked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge911 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I won't dock the puppies and chip later. The legislation allows it, but there is no way I can be certain that it's the same puppy I docked. very good point and a valid reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 I won't dock the puppies and chip later. The legislation allows it, but there is no way I can be certain that it's the same puppy I docked. Can you chip a 3 day old pup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Can you chip a 3 day old pup? its certainly not recommended AFAIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 I thought part of the docking legislation was the dog must be chipped if legally docked ? They do have to be chipped but not at the same time, hence why the new owners are told that it has to be done within 3 months of docking. Hope that clears up any confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 I won't dock the puppies and chip later. The legislation allows it, but there is no way I can be certain that it's the same puppy I docked. It would'nt matter if it wasn't the right pup you would still have a pup some where without a docking certificate that would be illegal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Can you chip a 3 day old pup? Yes. I did 4 two days old pups yesterday. It would'nt matter if it wasn't the right pup you would still have a pup some where without a docking certificate that would be illegal It matters to the vet! Vets can be struck off for certifying something that is not true. Have their whole livelihood taken away from them for putting a signature where it shouldn't be. There was a very prominent horse vet stuck off for signing false dated vaccination certificates recently. Not a big issue to the owner but a HUGE issue for the vet. If people want me to dock the puppy's tail it's chipped at the time. There's no other way with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Yes. I did 4 two days old pups yesterday. It matters to the vet! Vets can be struck off for certifying something that is not true. Have their whole livelihood taken away from them for putting a signature where it shouldn't be. There was a very prominent horse vet stuck off for signing false dated vaccination certificates recently. Not a big issue to the owner but a HUGE issue for the vet. If people want me to dock the puppy's tail it's chipped at the time. There's no other way with me. They would'nt be able to prove it ,if it was the same breed and the same colour. so no vet could ever be struck off for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Interesting view, I have to say ignoring all the guidelines and sticking a huge needle into a 3 day old pup at a guess could end up with a cruelty charge when it went wrong with a similar effect. Obviously I wouldn't have you dock mine and would go elsewhere but if my existing vet who knew the bitch , me and the litter turned round and said that to me I'd be off looking for a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Interesting view, I have to say ignoring all the guidelines and sticking a huge needle into a 3 day old pup at a guess could end up with a cruelty charge when it went wrong with a similar effect. Now I would argue you are straying into very dodgy ground there! The reason we can dock puppies less than 5 days old is that their brain is not fully developed and we don't believe it to be a painful procedure. IF we are saying inserting a microchip is painful then an anaesthetic would be necessary for the docking. I will happily dock puppies a few days old without anaesthetic [for this reason] and I don't believe inserting a microchip is especially painful or difficult. What guidelines do you suggest I am ignoring? If you look at the certificate there is space to sign that a microchip was inserted on the same day. http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/act/documents/docking_certificate.pdf If the chip is not inserted at the time I have to certify that I believe the same dog that was docked in part one was presented to me. The ONLY way that I could ever sign this was if the dog was individually identified with a microchip. I cannot certify something I do not know to be true. From the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons website: If the facts are incorrect or misleading, the professional integrity of the veterinary surgeon is called into question. Cases coming before the Disciplinary Committee may arise from allegations of false certification. CERTAINTY In considering what they will attest in order to satisfy the obligation of certainty, veterinary surgeons: (a) must be sure that they attest only to what to the best of their knowledge and belief is true (B) do not attest to future events © do not recklessly attest to what others have declared or asserted http://www.rcvs.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/guide-to-professional-conducts-for-veterinary-surgeons/2g-certification/ Although by law the chip has to be inserted by 3 months, myself [and many vets I know] will not sign the certificate if chipped later. Period. I cannot sign something I don't know to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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