NorfolkPoacher Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 After recently completing my fac variation I now have adjustments made by my flo. Initially I requested fox to be added to my .308 just in case I encounter one whilst stalking. Now I have deer and "other lawfull quarry" added to my .243 and .308 conditions. I am still wondering if this now means I can shoot fox, deer, boar, goat or big cat without a specific request. It seems a really good idea if that's the case but am I jumping the gun?? Anyone else had similar experience? Cheers. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 yes essentially, it seems to be the way they are going - if it's lawful quarry for that calibre (and anything below, ie rabbit) and you have landowner permission then fire away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntsman Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 not all forces have adapted the acpo guidelines so your a lucky man some have been fighting this ruking for a number of months if not years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark@mbb Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Cheshire are way behind the times Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkPoacher Posted March 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Thanks for your input guys. I had my fac adjusted to allow .308 in oct and also an open ticket for cf. Now 4 months later my conditions have been adjusted for the better, it seems I am a very lucky boy!! I also think you should be able to have catagories of guns not specific calibres for example.30 cal or .22cf so Someone like myself allowed .223and .243 can purchase a 22hornet or a 22250 for instance. Providing they state good reason for each weapon. It's daft that someone allowed .300 win mag can't go out and buy a .204 etc. Maybe that's a problematic can of worms I have opened up....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Thanks for your input guys. I had my fac adjusted to allow .308 in oct and also an open ticket for cf. Now 4 months later my conditions have been adjusted for the better, it seems I am a very lucky boy!! I also think you should be able to have catagories of guns not specific calibres for example.30 cal or .22cf so Someone like myself allowed .223and .243 can purchase a 22hornet or a 22250 for instance. Providing they state good reason for each weapon. It's daft that someone allowed .300 win mag can't go out and buy a .204 etc. Maybe that's a problematic can of worms I have opened up....lol Makes sense to me... so likely never to be made law I'm lucky enough to have an open cert for all my rifles and "legal quarry" and "humane dispatch" conditions too but we do suffer a bit of a postcode lottery when it comes to firearms law (or should that be "lore"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkPoacher Posted March 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I too have the conditions you mentioned on my open ticket. Does seem crazy that I can own a .243 and .308 but can't buy a .22hornet or .222 without changing my whole fac. Norfolk does seem to be good with respect to fac, and variations. Got mine back in 2weeks. Atb Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldypurple Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 your lucky dave. ive been waiting now 9 weeks for a variation, changing my 223 to a 243 and an increase of one 17hmr. already have .22 and .308 for target deer and fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 The 'any other legal quarry' condition is a better solution to an age-old problem. The only issue is some forces like the wording but still try to argue that, for example, with "vermin, ground game and any other lawful quarry" you can't shoot fox, which is clearly rubbish. So it's going to change again I would think, though goodness only knows when! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) After recently completing my fac variation I now have adjustments made by my flo. Initially I requested fox to be added to my .308 just in case I encounter one whilst stalking. Now I have deer and "other lawfull quarry" added to my .243 and .308 conditions. I am still wondering if this now means I can shoot fox, deer, boar, goat or big cat without a specific request. It seems a really good idea if that's the case but am I jumping the gun?? Anyone else had similar experience? Cheers. Dave It's a cracking condition and mine came back that way after a variation a year or two back... and all other lawful quarry No need to ask about the big cat next time I'm on the moor ! Edited March 16, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) It's funny. When I applied for my centerfire I asked for 'All Lawful quarry' but it came out as 'Deer and fox'. I'll try again next time it goes off for variation. Edited March 16, 2011 by Bleeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 It's funny. When I applied for my centerfire I asked for 'All Lawful quarry' but it came out as 'Deer and fox'. I'll try again next time it goes off for variation. Mine said that originally, when I put it in to be opened it came back with the legal quarry condition on the center fires and humane dispatch too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkPoacher Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 It's a cracking condition and mine came back that way after a variation a year or two back... and all other lawful quarry No need to ask about the big cat next time I'm on the moor ! don't forget the pics mate!! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I am reliably informed that the "any other lawful quarry" condition only covers lesser species than the primary named species. Therfore if your fac states fox and OLQ then you may only shoot fox quarry smaller than fox. If it says deer and OLQ then you may shoot deer and anything smaller than deer. Wild boar need to be named specifically and therefore Deer and OLQ would not cover the shooting of wild boar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkPoacher Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Cheers for that. It makes perfect sense what your saying, but..... Why don't the fld state exactly what you have said? Why do they purposely create grey areas? I should have exactly what I can shoot in black and white on my fac and not rely on information from complete stangers with regards to the law. No disrespect intended by the way. From how I read my conditions I can shoot any lawfull quarry species in the uk with my specified rifles. Obviously calibre specific regarding deer. And shoot to protect myself, livestock or wildlife. Atb dave Edited March 17, 2011 by NorfolkPoacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I am reliably informed that the "any other lawful quarry" condition only covers lesser species than the primary named species. Therfore if your fac states fox and OLQ then you may only shoot fox quarry smaller than fox. If it says deer and OLQ then you may shoot deer and anything smaller than deer. Wild boar need to be named specifically and therefore Deer and OLQ would not cover the shooting of wild boar. why not? are Boar not legal quarry? from every source I've heard it covers you for any quarry that is legal with that firearm, hence the reasoning behind placing it on tickets. I can't see how they could ever stand up and say we said you could shoot Other legal quarry but we didn't mean Boar or indeed anything else as long as its legal. It may be another case of FEO's making it up as they go along but it makes no sense, the purpose of the wording was to put the ball in the shooters court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 why not? are Boar not legal quarry? from every source I've heard it covers you for any quarry that is legal with that firearm, hence the reasoning behind placing it on tickets. I can't see how they could ever stand up and say we said you could shoot Other legal quarry but we didn't mean Boar or indeed anything else as long as its legal. It may be another case of FEO's making it up as they go along but it makes no sense, the purpose of the wording was to put the ball in the shooters court. I agree with you Alex but I only report what I was told by a member of the FELWG who drew up and issued the wording for this condition. This same person stated that all correspondence, discussions and minutes on the subject of wild boar have clearly stipulated that certificates must be specifically conditioned for them (wild boar) and that OLQ did not. The little research I have done on the net seems to confirm this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Cheers for that. It makes perfect sense what your saying, but..... Why don't the fld state exactly what you have said? Why do they purposely create grey areas? I should have exactly what I can shoot in black and white on my fac and not rely on information from complete stangers with regards to the law. No disrespect intended by the way. From how I read my conditions I can shoot any lawfull quarry species in the uk with my specified rifles. Obviously calibre specific regarding deer. And shoot to protect myself, livestock or wildlife. Atb dave Would you please be kind enough to detail the wording on your fac where it states you may shoot to protect yourself. "And shoot to protect myself, livestock or wildlife". Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I am reliably informed that the "any other lawful quarry" condition only covers lesser species than the primary named species. Therfore if your fac states fox and OLQ then you may only shoot fox quarry smaller than fox. If it says deer and OLQ then you may shoot deer and anything smaller than deer. Wild boar need to be named specifically and therefore Deer and OLQ would not cover the shooting of wild boar. Charlie, that is not what my region confirm, I lost the Boar condition on mine and found it replaced by Deer, so I challenged this immediately and was advised directly by the Firearms Manager, by virtue of the wording it covers ANY lawful quarry, not simply lessor, my region list the principle quarry of the calibre, as lead, not necessarily the biggest! The wording says ANY, not LESSOR, I think they would have a problem with their argument if yours says ANY!! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Deker is right. Any other means any other. It's as simple as that. Does not matter what the intended outcome was. The conditions on your ticket are usually (i.e. Except deer) the only law governing what can and cannot be used to shoot a given quarry species. Were you to be brought to court in alleged breach of these conditions, the absolute wording IS the case. Matters not a jot about intention or what one bigwig said to another - it's the actual words that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Charlie, that is not what my region confirm, I lost the Boar condition on mine and found it replaced by Deer, so I challenged this immediately and was advised directly by the Firearms Manager, by virtue of the wording it covers ANY lawful quarry, not simply lessor, my region list the principle quarry of the caliber, as lead, not necessarily the biggest! The wording says ANY, not LESSOR, I think they would have a problem with their argument if yours says ANY!! ATB! I do agree with what you say and my fac is worded the same. However I was just reporting what was told to me in a conversation I had with someone from on high who is responsible for formulating and implementing HO/ACPO policy. They were quite adamant that their policy was to instruct regions that Boar required their own specific (named) condition. The published minuets from ACPO FELWG and my own regions Firearms Liaison Committee meetings certainly substantiate this. However as we know regions have a tendency to do as they wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigrifle Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Would you please be kind enough to detail the wording on your fac where it states you may shoot to protect yourself. "And shoot to protect myself, livestock or wildlife". Charlie I will quote you mine the shooting of animals for the protection of other animals or humans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Charlie I think all we are seeing is those in charge not understanding diddly squat, once again. Hey ho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkPoacher Posted March 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Charlie, mine too states "the shooting of animals for the protection of other animals or humans" also "the shooting of vermin or, in the course of carrying activities in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife" which again leaves more questions than answers, the vermin bit is easily understood, but the wildlife?? I'm guessing Olq is regional hence why wild boar wasn't on my fac due to there being none in Norfolk, however I will more than happily stand in court and hear how boar doesn't fall into the catagory of olq! i intend to hunt boar and now it seems I'm legal to do so. Atb Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 "the shooting of vermin or, in the course of carrying activities in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife" which again leaves more questions than answers, the vermin bit is easily understood, but the wildlife?? I was about to ask the same question as my FAC states that as well.What is the other wildlife? My FAC is open and the largest calibre I have at the moment is .243 conditioned for DEER & FOX. Alan :hmm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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