peek-at Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Hi Fellas, Bit bored this morning so I have been playing with chairgun pro which got me thinking about the trajectory of my CZ452 Rimmy......my prefered round is the Eley sub hollowpoint I know that the 17HMR has a flatter trajectory and I was wondering if using either a lighter round or High velocity .22rf round would get anywhere near the flatter trajectory of the hummer...... Has anyone tried out any variations? how did it go? was it worth the effort given the quietness of the subsonic round? very interested to hear cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 hummes run exceptionally fast, rimmys are just a big innefficient lump of lead. they both work. one is considered a "push bike" slow and gets the job done, the hummer is like a F1 car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Hi Fellas, Bit bored this morning so I have been playing with chairgun pro which got me thinking about the trajectory of my CZ452 Rimmy......my prefered round is the Eley sub hollowpoint I know that the 17HMR has a flatter trajectory and I was wondering if using either a lighter round or High velocity .22rf round would get anywhere near the flatter trajectory of the hummer...... Has anyone tried out any variations? how did it go? was it worth the effort given the quietness of the subsonic round? The speed of the bullet determines the flattness of the flight, not the weight. A bullet dropped at the same time as it is fired will hit the ground at the same time (so long as the gun is completely horizontal to the ground). Gravity acts equally on both, regardless if one is moving and the other isn't. Whilst in a vacuum all objects fall at the same speed, the difference between a .17 and a .22 bullet is so small that they will both accelerate and fall at the same speed. Edited March 18, 2011 by Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 hummes run exceptionally fast, rimmys are just a big innefficient lump of lead. HMR's are "rimmies".... the trajectory will flatten out with speed and a reduction in weight though... Regard, Gixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 HMR's are "rimmies".... Gixer yes i know they are. the slang term for rimfire are "rimmie" and "hummer" os for HMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 hummes run exceptionally fast, rimmys are just a big innefficient lump of lead. HMR's are "rimmies".... yes i know they are. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 In general scheme of things, the HMR is slow, with a loopy trajectory. IMHO there is no point with HV .22LR, just use WMR, HMR or Hornet instead. LR is by far at its best as a silent round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 custom WMR 60gn Vmax..... bit of an experiment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 custom WMR 60gn Vmax..... bit of an experiment Two blocks of wood, two jubilee clips and about 100 foot of string, me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 :blink: That's what I was thinking Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 custom WMR 60gn Vmax..... bit of an experiment OOO! Is that home loaded? Can 22 WMR reloading gear be bought in the uk? I know you get it in the USA but never seen it over here? Regards, Gixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 well it is a bit of a project for me. I wanted a frangible round at a close to subsonic speed that was also at or over 60gn very close range foxes. not possible in the 22lr as the case is the same .224" as the round. The WMR however is a perfect donor. involves removing off the shelf bullets from WMR cartridges as I dont have a source of empty WMR cartridges yet. but compared to CF home loading it is pennies! need to load a few and play around with the charge levels to get something close to what I am after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradders Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 The closest I got was a CCI Stinger....flat and accurate, will never be in the 17hmr class but fills the gap between 22lr and 17hmr, not subsonic though.......but will get the fatter trajectory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 well it is a bit of a project for me. I wanted a frangible round at a close to subsonic speed that was also at or over 60gn very close range foxes. not possible in the 22lr as the case is the same .224" as the round. The WMR however is a perfect donor. involves removing off the shelf bullets from WMR cartridges as I dont have a source of empty WMR cartridges yet. but compared to CF home loading it is pennies! need to load a few and play around with the charge levels to get something close to what I am after How do you know it's safe ( just asking not critsizing) and how did you crimp the round? Wish they would do the WMR reloading gear like they do in bass pro, they seam to be able to churn out rounds for pennies over there! Although the primers would maybe be a bit dodgy to have around (think I remember seeing bag fulls of them in bass pro last time I was there!) Regards, Gixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 and also... twist rate, I doubt that will stabilise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 and also... twist rate, I doubt that will stabilise. Or be very frangible and subsonic velocities.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) although a lighter weight bullet or the readilly available HV .22lr will shoot flatter it is actually less accurate at 100 yds . Reason is it cannot stay well over the speed of sound and bullets destabilise and slow down at slightly different rates no matter how carefully they are made you simply won't ever get good enough to prevent destabilisation in the transonic zone. Changes in air pressure, temprature and humidity all have effects to boot. The .22 sub shoots pleny flat enough to easily use to 65-70yds, HV hit harder up to these ranges that is thier only advantage. The HMR goes way faster than the speed of sound (over double in fact) and can add an appriciable difference in trajectory giving a shooter a range of say double the .22lr sub if his wind dopeing skills are up to it. Why bother the solution is the HMR? Edited March 18, 2011 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Well as I will be downloading rather than uploading, velocity and case pressure will be less. being a pointy vMax helps as it is staying off the lands. I am not going to try anything silly. Case is held in its entire length when pulling not just on rim and force required to pull bullet is surprisingly little, certainly no worse than the force it would receive in a quick slam of a bolt into a chamber or the action of a semi auto smacking into it. Crimping is actually not a problem as pulling a canullured gamepoint from a factory load leaves a neck size which is perfect for the .224 Vmax. If I had to crimp I would use a 22 hornet crimp. there is enough tolerance there to take into account the thinner brass of the WMR. Twist rate shouldnt be a problem as this is for short range work (sub 50yds), it may not but only one way to find out! I am just playing with this but my end goal is a much heavier subsonic. There are 75 and 80gn hollow point, AMax and VMax available. I would like to find a suitable velocity that still deforms the VMax at subsonic or close to speeds, otherwise I will try the hollow points. The prospect of a 200-250+ ftlbs ME subsonic rimfire round is very interesting. Not for everyone but as I am not planning on knocking up thousands of these so whilst it might seem a bit fiddly its one of those stupid "what if... " things that I have been toying with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) :blink: I thought all polymer tipped bullets like v max and the like only violently expand when traveling something like 1800fps or faster, in which case i fail to see what the advantage would be ................ probably the very reason why no manufacturer makes any v maxed subs ( the lowest listing for v max that i can find are WMR remmy's 33 grain prmeir v max, which has a muzzel vel above 2000fps as already said, .22rf for silent use .17hmr for that bit further centerfire for all 120 yard+ vermin and any dedicated fox work as the little rat says 'simples' Edited March 18, 2011 by Paul223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Hi Fellas, Bit bored this morning so I have been playing with chairgun pro which got me thinking about the trajectory of my CZ452 Rimmy......my prefered round is the Eley sub hollowpoint FYI the eley subs muzzel vel is 1065, bc of 0.115 I know that the 17HMR has a flatter trajectory and I was wondering if using either a lighter round or High velocity .22rf round would get anywhere near the flatter trajectory of the hummer......the fastest .22rf that comes to mind is the aguila 30 grain super max, knocking on at 1750fps and just managing to stay super sonic at 100 yards, bc of 0.102 if you want to play with the figures ....... Has anyone tried out any variations? how did it go? was it worth the effort given the quietness of the subsonic round? very interested to hear cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 I thought all polymer tipped bullets like v max and the like only violently expand when traveling something like 1800fps or faster your quite right paul. tried all sorts of things with the hornet reloading and ballistic tips DONT work when you slow em down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 [quote name='kent' timestamp='1300476493' post= Why bother the solution is the HMR? Not in a good crosswind it isn't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Not in a good crosswind it isn't! neither is the .22 rimfires any better though the .22 WRF is actually worse on wind, but the op posed a trajectory queery though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 How is a WMR or 22lr worse in wind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 .17hmr is better in the wind out to 100yards, by an inch or more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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